Re: postone

[ken <kenneth.mackendrick@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:56:48 -0400 Ralph Dumain wrote:

> A friend of mine has been bugging me to read Postone for
years.  He claims this is the ultimate book to read.  Finally,
when it came out in paperback, I bought it and still haven't
read it.  I'd love to see a discussion.  Since I don't participate
in the lists I used to, I'm curious as to what list was it in which
said flame war occurred?  Why would anyone flame over
Postone?

> At 01:49 AM 10/21/98 +1000, rc&am wrote:
> >i don't know if you mean the same list, but i found myself
> >embroiled in a similar melee.  it was not very conducive to
> >discussion or explanation.

> >i'm up for a discussion on postone though if others are.

The list was Bad Subjects.  The flame war, in general, was
about the state of Marxian theory today.

Here are the key aspects that were flamed back and forth:

One the one side:

1.  The key to Marx is his dual theory of labour - the distinction
between abstract labour and concrete labour and the ensuing
distinction between the dual character of the commodity.

2.  That anyone who ignores these distinctions cannot claim to
be a Marxist.

3.  Resistance against employers is the primary locus of any
possible form of resistance.

One the other side:

1.  Concrete labour cannot meaningfully be distinguished
from abstract labour, however valuable such distinctions
might be, in late capitalism.

2.  There is no 'one true' interpretation of Marx.

3.  Resistance is cyclical.  The point is not to resist, rather to
overcome (since resistance requires the maintaining of
whatever is being resisted against).

I'd have to say that the debate essentially boils down to this:
a frankly 'orthodox' Marxism vs. a more
Lacanian-Althusserian Marxism.  I'll note that I simply cannot
avoid an overt prejudice here, since I was one of the
participants slinging brimstone.  Postone was used in support
of the former for his analysis of Habermas and abstract
and concrete labour and, in part, in the latter, for his
hermeneutical reinterpretation.  Hence - althought the flame
war wasn't specifically about Postone - _Time, Labor, and
Social Domination_ became a sore spot since both sides were
claiming it (for different reasons).  In any event - the 'debate'
was completely unproductive and largely a waste of time for
everyone involved (even though flame wars are often fun and
engaging).

ken