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Re: [TNF] Bubble Everywhere





Warren Mosler wrote:

--- Barkley Rosser <rosserjb@xxxxxxx> wrote:

  One of the reasons that the bond market is
declining
is because investors have gotten tired of the low
yields
from bonds and are moving back into stocks.


How about- bonds got overbought (as many times before
in this cycle) due to dynamic hedging, particularly
due to imbedded options in mtgs, and this time
compounded by simultaneous stories of 'unconventional
monetary policy etc.'  Either that or the economy
really is recovering and bonds will keep rising in
yield until the next cycle.

This "recovery" is engineered by the Fed pumping liquidity into the economy, not by fundamentals. The problem of an interest rate policy is that its effectiveness has been diluted by derivatives and swaps. The Fed just released its minutes on the Discount Rate meetings between March 31 and May 1, 2003. The San Francisco and Boston banks voted for a quarter point cut in the discount rate on April 24 and the NY Bank voted May 1 to cut half a point. The Fed cut the DR quarter point in June to 2% having kept it constant in May. The FFR was cut to 1%. A whole percentage point spread is considered big, the norm between the DR and the FFR is normally half and point. The basis for the cut was given by SF and Boston as "uncertainty in geopolitical environment, persistence in business risk aversion, and risks of a weak economy." The NY Bank cited "unemployment, retail pessimism, lack of business investment."

Interest rate policy in this complex financial system tends to
neutralize its own moves, shifting the gain and pain from sector to
sector and from market participants to other market participants, while
stubbornly keeping 3/4 of the economy down.  The 1/4 that is up
temporarily is viewed as signs of "recovery", giving false hopes and
speculative moves.  We have seen that happened in Japan for more than a
decade. The difference is that in Japan, the government absorbs the
pain.  In the US, the pain is passed on to the public immediately, but
1/4 of them will keep the spending limping along.  The other difference
is that the US has a more aggressive debt culture than Japan.  Just
don't get caught swimming without your trunk when the tide goes out.

Henry C.K. Liu























So, it

is not
surprising at all that the stock markets are holding
up as
the bond markets are dipping.


Right, that's the recover story- Fed will raise rates
back from 'distress' levels to 'normal' levels quickly
as soon as the economy recovers for real.



    Henry's warnings are cogent, however.  If
rising interest
rates in Japan pull Japanese money home, the dollar
could
really take a hit and all kinds of funny stuff could
happen.


Doubt the boj is ready to let the yen get strong.


Also, clearly the housing bubble is fragile as
mortgage
rates in the US have almost surely bottomed out.


True.


    Why do we see references to "Bernanke stepping
in
to hold up the bond market.?"  The power on the Fed
remains Alan Greenspan, not Bernanke.  Is this more
Gang8 fantasies?


I vote yes.

Also, check out the plan we submitted to St. Croix
regarding the public housing authority at
www.mosler.org.  It should apply to most any public
housing around the world.

Warren


Barkley Rosser
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Santos" <evs@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <TheNewForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "EGroup PKT"
<pkt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 12:44 PM
Subject: Re: [TNF] Bubble Everywhere



The article below supplements what Henry just

posted. I continue to wonder

if Bernanke is stepping in to hold up the bond

market. Even as I write I am

surprised that the rally in the stock market world

wide continues. Is the

liquidity coming from the bond market? The rally

in the stock market is a

bet on the theory that inflation will increase

real asset prices and as

liquidity is created from bond liquidation, more

so if the Fed is supporting

the bond market at these lofty prices, the rally

in the market will

continue. Nick, do you have yields on the 10-year

note going back several

years? It would be great if you could post them in

chart form.

Money has nowhere of real substance to go to but

the choice of the moment

are stock market bets. I would think money will

eventually turn to the

currency markets and another wild ride will

develop. I think this is what

Henry means when he said that all markets are now

trading markets. Money

will flow from one market to another. I would

think that gold will benefit

as a consequence.

Any opinions out there?

Gary Santos



US Treasuries hammered for second day, Fed faulted
Thursday June 26, 4:37 pm ET
By Wayne Cole



http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/030626/markets_bonds_6.html

(Adds late prices, comment)
NEW YORK, June 26 (Reuters) - Treasuries were

hammered again on Thursday as

a massive corporate offering from GM tempted away

investors still smarting

from what they saw as the Federal Reserve's

half-hearted easing in monetary

policy.

The benchmark 10-year note shed over a point in

price for a second day

running while yields shot to six-week highs above

3.50 percent.

Yields have risen over 30 basis points since the

Fed delivered its quarter

percentage point cut in interest rates, so undoing

much of the recent easing

in financial conditions.

Meanwhile, such was the deluge of demand for

General Motors Corp.'s

(NYSE:GM - News) bond issue that it was repeatedly

raised in size until it

totaled $17 billion, making it the largest

corporate bond sale in history.

As a result, investors dumped Treasuries both to

make room for the

higher-yielding paper and to hedge against adverse

movements in yields on

the deal.

"It's been another wild day," said J.P. Marra,

managing director of

government bond trading at Lehman Brothers. "The

GM deal was a big part of

the down-move today. It's such a lot of paper and,

what with investors being

upset with the Fed, it's been a double whammy."

The market took further umbrage when minutes of

the Fed's previous meeting

in May showed members played down the risk of

deflation, so pushing out any

chance of it adopting unconventional measures such

as buying longer-date

Treasuries.

Marra feared further pain for bonds in the short

term, but also felt yields

were nearing levels that would be attractive to

many longer-term players.

"The Fed disappointed a lot of people but at least

it looks like keeping

rates around 1.0 percent for a long time to come.

Now with the five-year

nearing 2.5 percent, it's starting to offer a

compelling carry for

investors," said Marra.

The five-year note (US5YT=RR) lost a hefty 19/32

in price on Thursday, so

forcing its yield to 2.45 percent from 2.32

percent on Thursday and a recent

record low near 2.00 percent.

The carnage was widespread, with the two-year

yield (US2YT=RR) leaping to

1.40 percent from 1.29 percent and a trough of

just 1.09 percent on

Wednesday.

The 10-year note (US10YT=RR) sank a full point in

price for a yield of 3.53

percent from 3.41 percent. The 30-year bond

(US30YT=RR) collapsed 1-18/32,

taking its yield to 4.56 from 4.46 percent.

MISUNDERSTOOD, AGAIN

The spike in yields will likely see mortgage rates

rise and could crimp the

rush of refinancing that has been supporting

consumer incomes. It can also

become self-feeding since holders of mortgage debt

will have less reason to

hedge against prepayment and may sell some of

their Treasuries, so forcing

yields yet higher.

That is an outcome analysts assume the Fed would

want to avoid and there was

talk in the market that officials were perturbed

by the jump in yields.

"Apparently the Fed thinks it's been

'misunderstood' again," said one trader

at a primary dealer. "Well, if they just said what

they mean instead of

obscuring it in central bank speak, we wouldn't

have these problems."

He suspected Fed board members would soon be

offering calming words to the

market, trying to pull yields back down, and noted

Chairman Alan Greenspan

would have a perfect opportunity to clarify their

policy when he testifies

to the House in mid-July.

Meantime, the market would be extra-sensitive to

the flow of economic data

fearing that any signs of strength will reduce the

chance of further policy

moves, conventional or otherwise.

Thursday's numbers were too mixed to offer much of

a guide. Weekly jobless

claims came in at a lower than expected 404,000,

but first quarter gross

domestic product growth was revised down to 1.4

percent from an already

sluggish 1.9 percent.


http://bonds.yahoo.com/rates.html U.S. Treasury Bonds Maturity Yield Yesterday Last Week Last Month 3 Month 0.77 0.75 0.73 0.94 6 Month 0.90 0.88 0.89 0.96 2 Year 1.32 1.29 1.28 1.23 5 Year 2.55 2.48 2.40 2.26 10 Year 3.70 3.65 3.51 3.34 30 Year 4.72 4.68 4.55 4.39




----- Original Message ----- From: "Henry C.K. Liu" <hliu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <pkt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;

<a-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;

<TheNewForum@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 11:48 PM
Subject: [TNF] Bubble Everywhere



The burst of the equity bubble produced the bond

bubble and the housing

bubble. As investors fleed the stock market,

funds poured into bonds,

bidding up prices and lowering effective

long-term interest rates. As

the Fed lowered Fed Funds rate targets, low

mortgage payments pushed up

housing prices, producing a housing bubble. The

burst of the bond

bubble will threaten the housing bubble, the

bursting of which will

exacerbate aggregate demand in construction, for

labor, for home

appliances and supplies, which will in turn

affect corporate earning

which will torpedo the current "recovery". The

collapse of the Japanese

bond market will also force the Japanese to sell

US Treasuries, adding

to the problem. The smart money is already

borrowing short term,

through the repo market and its related

instruments, to invest in

10-year treasuries. Another debt bubble is

building.

Bubbles are now pathological. Fund managers are

all forced to respond

to quarterly results. Herd behavior is a given.

The aim is to beat the

market, not to invest in the market. S&P Fixed

Income Committee has just

recommended a cut back of 5% on 10-year bonds in

fixed income

portfolios, in response to falling bond prices.

The 10-year bond is now

a terminal instrument in that the rate advantage

in the currenct

deflationary period is not expected to

compensate to the price fall due

to eventual inflation over its 10-year life

span. Thus 10-year bonds

are now a short-term trading instrument, not a

long-term investment

instrument. In fact, if you do not follow the

market daily, you have no

business being in the market. So long to the

long term investor. When

all investments are short-term, it is a trader's

market, turning the

economy into a horse race. The difference is

that in a horse race, the

betting odds on a horse do not affect its

performance. That is not true

in an economy driven by equity and credit

prices. The whole market can

bet on the wrong sector and make it a winner in

the next quarter, but it

may finish last in the race.

Wealth preservation is now a losing game. Asset

is becoming a

liability.  Income is all.


Henry C.K. Liu


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=====
Warren Mosler, www.mosler.org
c/o James River Capital Corp
5007 Chandler's Wharf, Suite 201/202
Christiansted, USVI  00820
340-719-8813 office phone
340-719-8804 Fax
Primary email contact:  mosler@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

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