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Re: flow or stock?



 
Paul Davidson 
 Those who propagate the belief that stock prices reflect future dividend (or even income) flows is a reflection  that these "economists" have not yet been sable to slough the skins of the irrelevant efficient market hypothesis of mainstream economics.
[Clifford Poirot] 
To argue that people buy financial assets on the basis of expected future returns (be it in the form of anticipated dividends, earnings or capital appreciation) is not the same as accepting the efficient market hypothesis-by a long shot. The EMH says all current prices reflect all known information, and only new information moves prices. The EMH assumes the information is correct, and that in the aggregate, any mistakes in anticipation cancel each other out. I would argue that people buy on the basis of expected future returns, but that for many reasons (including, but not limited to uncertainty) often wind up being wrong in their expectations, and that prices do not reflect all known information. So this is far from the EMH.

When students present this argument I confront them with the following real world example.

 While I was at Rutgers a colleague of mine collected stamps as a professional occupation.  His collection was so valuable that he had to keep it in a safe deposit box at a bank. (Therefore he could not get any utility from looking at these beautiful pieces of paper as some mainstream colleagues argue when I present them with this example. Nor could many of these bits of paper even move a letter through the mails --since they were often cancelled -- and even if they could move a letter they could not be worth more than their face value.)   Yet he continued to buy and sell parts of his collection. Why?

These pieces of paper certainly did not represent a share of the future profits of the post office (That's a laugh since most postal systems lose money.)
Did these bits of paper represent the Marginal product of the post offices which issued them?  Or was it (as I have argued is the same for any liquid assets in a nonergodic system) the "buy to sell to the bigger fool theory"?
[Clifford Poirot] 
Paul, I must protest this example as bordering on the invidious. Did your students really let this go unchallenged? Do you characterize stamps as a "financial asset"? Stamps are a rare commodity, and their rareness or uniqueness makes them valuable. Your colleague may have been unable to derive pleasure from looking at stamps, but most collectors of anything rare value things due to their rareness. Nonetheless, they buy on the basis of anticipated future values-or-to obtain an opportunity to buy another item. When I collected baseball cards as a teenager, I placed on a disproportionate value on the Yankees. Yet I would trade Yankee cards if I thought it might bring me something equally as good-like say -Pete Rose. What made the value of Pete Rose (or Thurmond Munson, or Bobby Mercer...) high? It was anticipation of their current and future performance. The same with rookie cards.
 
Nonetheless, I was never able to parlay my minimal baseball card collection into tradeable liquidity (though others I knew were to a very limited degree).
 
Such items are not the same as the purchase of financial assets. 

Another example: In the 1970s the US postal system offered a  stamp for Dag Hammersjold (spelling may be wrong) a former UN official that had died..  After the end of the production run, a person in Peoria told the media that he had obrtained a sheet of these stamps where the picture was reversed --and the owner explained how  since this was so rare he expected to sell this for millions at a stamp collectors auction.  The U.S. post office found out about this as the TV media picked up the story , and they decided to print  sheets of the stamp with the picture reversed.  As soon as that was announced guess what happened to the value of the original sheet of misprinted stamps?
[Clifford Poirot] 
And this is a perfect example of unanticipated information changing the value. Why did its price fall? Because now its anticipated future value had changed. 

One final fact, several years ago (before the Clinton Administration started retiring the 30 year Treasury Bonds, statisitcs indicated that the duration that people held a 30 year Treasury was on average less than 180 days. In that case who cares about future stream of interest payments?
[Clifford Poirot] 
Anyone who is buying and selling Treasury Bonds-because the decision to buy, hold or sell will be based on anticipated changes in bond prices and yields. Nonetheless, I would like to see these statistics. I'll make a guess that professional bond traders and bond funds held the bonds for short term purposes to trade in response to short term market movements, in an attempt to push fund yields up a few basis points (and also generate management fees).  I would hazard to guess that the "average" investor who bought Treasury bonds for long term income and safety, held them for much longer. But let's extend this further-what period are we talking about? Sometimes the FED changes policies every 180 days.

Regardless, why would I buy or sell a bond if it was not in anticipation or in response to, actual or anticipated changes in yields. 


The important thing to recognize is that if an orderly, well organized market for a durable (with low carrying costs) exists, people will hold it for speculative purposes primarily --
[Clifford Poirot] 
To speculate: I thought that meant in anticipation of future yields or values? 

And as I have argued in my just published book FINANCIAL MARKETS, MONEY AND THE REAL WORLD a liquid market is not an efficient market -- and, in a nonergodic  uncertain world, an efficient market cannot be a liquid market.

Paul


Paul Davidson
Editor, Journal of Post Keynesian Economics
503 SMC
University of Tennessee
Knoxville, Tn 379996-0550
phone Number: (865) 974-4221
fax number: (865) 974-1686


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