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Re: My almost friend is not my enemy



Please see my responses below, which are set off from the text  in Italics. I am snipping significant parts of the exchange for brevity:
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Davidson [mailto:pdavidson@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 5:39 PM
To: Clifford Poirot
Cc: pkt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: My almost friend is not my enemy

At 04:10 PM 5/15/2002 -0400, you wrote:
My anecdote was to show how, unless non-mainstream economists are on the Board of Editors of such journals different perspectives are unlikely to be presented. 

ANYONE WANT TO CITE ISSUE IN THE LAST 5 YEARS WHERE DIFFERENT PERSPECTIVES WERE PRESENTED -- RATHER THAN DISCUSSIONS BETWEEEN TWEEDLEDEE AND TWEEDLE DUM (      OR IS IT TWEEDLE DUMB?)
[Clifford Poirot] 
 This is a point that is well made and on this, we have no dispute.
 
I am not surprised that Stiglitz has problems with uncertainty because as I have noted, I find Stiglitz' lack of acknowledgement of this issue to be perplexing and inconsistent with other things he has written. Which is to say, that we all have our theoretical blind spots.

It is not b lind spots -- but as Heilbroner and Milberg argued in their recent book -- a lack of any view but the narrowest of the mainstream.
[Clifford Poirot] 
I do not think that is productive for us to focus on our differing views of specific economists which is why I go into detail below on what I think are the more interesting and significant differences. It is true that the profession enforces conformity in a way that other disciplines do not. But as Barkley noted, Stiglitz does not represent the narrowest of mainstream theory, but rather, a significant opening. 

2) Probably the more interesting point is the significance for macroeconomics of microeconomic "imperfections". Let me turn this around-suppose Central Banks always and everywhere insured the liquidity of the system and the international system adopted Paul's IMCU proposal: Does this mean that markets would then experience continuous clearing and generate full employment, that wage contracts would not be subject to power differentials, that economies with substantial degrees of market power would not be vulnerable to oil price shocks?


The question Cliff is if we passed and enforced  laws preventing   exercise of monopoly power to prevent monopoly power in labor markets)(including anti labor union legislation, do you really think we would eliminate unemployment,  etc.?
[Clifford Poirot]  
Paul, as you are so fond of saying, I have never beaten my wife and certainly have no intention of starting. This statement is so far from the very clear meaning of my original assertions that it is difficult to regard this question as nothing more than a cheap rhetorical trick designed to make it appear that those who think that microeconomics has significant ramifacations for macroeconomics must be anti-union, or at best, logically anti-union, but inconsistent. See my further discussion on related points below. 

 
If we  reduced the power of labor unions  and inreasing competition among workers --would you have a "better" distribution of income? Again as someone who did his Ph. D. dissertation on Income Distribution -- and a student of Sidney Weintraub who developed Keynes's aggregate supply and demand analysis in his masterpiece AN APPROACH TO THE THEORY OF INCOME DISTRIBUTION,
[Clifford Poirot]  
Does this not require working out a theory of income distribution? Are you really suggesting that market power is not relevant for determining income distribution? 

I BELIEVE THAT BY GETTING KEYNES'S LIQUIDITY MESSAGE AND EFFECTIVE DEMAND MESSAGE AS THE BASIC MODEL WE CAN SOLVE WHAT KEYNES SAW AS THE TWO MAJOR FAULTS OF THE SYSTEM WE LIVE IN NAMELY ITS INABILITY TO PROMOTE FULL EMPLOYMENT AND ITS ARBITRARY AND INEQUITABLE DISTRIBUTION OF INCOME AND WEALTH
[Clifford Poirot] 
Do  you really mean to say that If we only have enough liquidity, all problems with Aggregate Demand and Aggregate Supply wil be solved along with issues related to income distribution?  

 
Moral hazard is really a very classical ad hoc invention.  If the monetary authority knew its business then as Keynes noted-- bank credit is the pavement on which enterprise travels and if bankers knew their business they would provide all the paving needed to keep industry going at full employment. 
[Clifford Poirot] 
How can banks possibly ever have all this information, or even act on it in a concerted manner if they did have this information?  You seem to assume that by providing enough liquidity, all possible coordination problems between economic agents will magically clear. And that is the real hocus pocus here. 

Adverse selection? That just asymmetric information hocus pocus!  If people lie on their loan application, that is known as fraud and is punishable under the criminal code  -as maybe we will see happens to Enron and Anderson.  But I don't think that even Joe Stiglitz would say that the Enron situation was an excellent case of adverse selection.
[Clifford Poirot] 
The Enron case illustrates very well the difference between asymmetric information and uncertainty. As I have said before, the theory of asymmetric information describes the real ontological system of differential power: Information is costly to obtain, and some agents have more and better access to it than others. Ironically, any intelligent accounting major at the undergraduate level could have accessed SEC filings and figured out something was fishy, even if the details would have been unknown. Because information is costly, investors depend on security analysts, company reports about earnings and other sources of information. As matters turned out, this information was wrong.
 
It is possible however, to consider a hypothetical case in which  Enron had acted entirely upright only to find that the bottom fell out of the energy market in a way that could not have been foreseen.
 
Uncertainty does not mean that asymmetric information does not exist, or vice versa. The concepts describe two different (though related) problems of people trying to work out real problems in real economies in real time.

What policy change would you advocate to end a market imperfection that would assure persistent full employment in any nation?  Globally?
[Clifford Poirot] 
There is no *ONE* policy change that can insure full employment nationally or globally. Yes, liquidity would help. For that matter, debt relief would help the developing world, as well as a change in priorities by the IMF and World Bank. Suffice it to say for the sake of brevity, the problem of unemployment in developing countries is often related to dual sectors and structural imbalances. In the U.S., promotion of full employment would require at the minimum an interest by the FED and Congress, coordinated together, to promote full employment. What I would define as full employment, would require, in a complex market economy such as ours, one of two things-a willingness to live with persistent inflation close to 10% or an overall incomes policy. Liquidity could be at best, a part of the policy-not the entire policy. And even then, there is no guarantee that AD policies would sufficiently address the problems of structural unemployment.
 
I can offer the very sad case of Portsmouth, Ohio as an exemplary real world case where technological shifts have turned a booming, mini-industrial center into a backwater Appalachian basket case. What would it take to lift Portsmouth out of the slump? It would take a concerted, long term development policy. As development economists like to point out, underdevelopment is a complex, interdependent process that requires complex, interdependent policies to address. Here again, expansion of local bank credit would undoubtedly help-but it would not miraculously solve the problems. Nor for that matter, would trying to revive industries that moved out 20 years ago. 

 First and foremost,  market imperfections reflect a fundamental reality about complex industrialized societies that is as important as uncertainty, and that is the difference in power.

Of course but so what?  In the medieval feudal system there were differences in power -- but the serfs never had to worry about being involuntarily unemployed.... Nor do slaves in a slave economy!  Power differences can be altered -- but I urge you to read the last chapter of Keynes' GT regarding whether the two major faults of the entrepreneurial system is due to differences in economic power-- As Keynes pointed out it is better for society for a man to tyranize his bank balance, then his neighbor.
[Clifford Poirot] 
Imagine a model of the medieval sociocultural system that failed to take these differences of power into account and you have North and Thomas description in The Rise of the Western World. I think that the contributions of the French Annales, of the English Marxist Historians, of Economic Anthropologists on the Peasantry contribute much more than North and Thomas in that particular instance. I reference my dissertation "The Political Economy Rural Social Change in Pre-Industrial England" , University of Utah, 1992, available from Ann Arbor Press, University of Michigan, or my much shorter article on "Institutions and Economic Evolution" published in the JEI in August, 1993. My difference with Marxists, and with other close cousins of the Marxists, is that I am prepared to accept the existence of social heirarchies under some circumstances. I agree with the Marxists and their close cousins, that understanding the dynamics of power helps to explain how the system actually operates. I recall, for example, that Goodwin developed a predator-prey model to explain how unemployment and inflation could be generated through conflict between capitalists and workers in a  market economy. Full employment would make this conflict and power differential socially acceptable, IMO, from an ethical point of view. There is no question that we both want full employment, the question is how do we get there?


Oligopolies, adverse selection, principal agent conflicts, asymmetric information are all real properties of a system in which people have differential access to power over economic resources. Since market economies function through the mediation of institutions, understanding how institutions function is vital to understanding how real world economies function.


Lets get to full employment and then maintain such a state and then if -- in this full employment state -- you and society does not like the resulting distribution of income and wealth, then lets change it.  But just changing the distribution of income and wealth will NOT per se create the full employment entrepreneurial society that I think is desireable.
[Clifford Poirot] 
I never said it would, and in fact, getting to full employment would alter the income distribution to some degree in and of itself. But, as I said above: 
 
"Oligopolies, adverse selection, principal agent conflicts, asymmetric information are all real properties of a system in which people have differential access to power over economic resources. Since market economies function through the mediation of institutions, understanding how institutions function is vital to understanding how real world economies function."
 
Unfortunately, I have run out of time with which to address the remainder of your points systematically. But I think that I addressed some of your responses in my original post anyway. Stiglitz and many other "Bastard" Keynesians have in fact agreed that flexible wages and prices would stabilize the system. That does not mean that we need to accept the assumption that markets will continuously and simultaneously clear if only there is enough liquidity, mo matter what the other institutional arrangements in society may be for working out the wage contract and setting prices.





There is a simple lesson though, that is illustrated in any "Keynesian"  principles text (specifically in Stiglitz principles text in Chapter 8): Rigid wages and prices mean that the economy is particularly vulnerable to both supply and demand side shocks.

Nonsense . in an uncertain world,  "shocks" i.e., unknown and unexpected future events will occur whether wages and prices are perfectly flexible or fixed.  In fact, as even Frank Hahn and Bob Solow suggested in a rfecent book, the Fixity of money wages and prices are a stabilizing factor in a monetary economy.!


 It does not follow however, that flexible wages and prices would improve the system, as income adjustments are equally likely. In effect, rigigities are a permanent, built-in component of the system, which means that it is more "efficient" to respond with government macroeconomic policies than by trying to force workers to accept draconian cuts in wages.


Government response will be necessary whether prices are flexible or fixed -- that is not the macroproblem!!!


3) Paul disagrees that Stiglitz has made contributions that could be of interest to Post-Keynesians. Paul and I disagree, I think, more than anything, on the definition and meaning of Post-Keynesianism. Paul is a fundamentalist who wants to reduce Post-Keynesianism to an axiomatic approach. I am a "Dowist" who things that Post-Keynesianism should follow a "babylonian" strategy. Complex systems call for complex approaches.
 


No! I think Post Keynesianism means the adoption of Keynes's General Theory model of aggregate supply and aggregate demand.  And as Keynes pointed out in his response to Dunlop  and Tarshis in the EJ in 1939 -- monopoly elements had nothing to do with it.

Classical economists long before Keynes -- argued that monopoly problems created unemployment and the business cycle.  If that is the essence of your model --then you are just being an up-to date 19th century classical economists -- and not a Post Keynesian.

There are interesting micro problems  involved in monopoly power -- but full employment problems are not one -- since as you may remember we were able to achieve full employment during  WWII  and even the Kennedy-Johnson years -- without inflation and without  changing the industrial (and labor market) power structure.

Paul



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