Re: two currencies and Korean war

["J. Barkley Rosser, Jr." <rosserjb@xxxxxxx>]

     Well, there really are all kinds of examples
of monies issued by states that end up getting
used in other places and even long after the
original issuer has stopped doing so.  One of
my favorites are Maria Theresa silver dollars,
originally issued by the Austro-Hungarian
empire in the 1770s when Maria Theresa was
the empress.  Of course these were perfectly
good chartalist money, accepted by the Hapsburgs
for paying taxes, etc.
      They became very popular in the eastern
Mediterranean for use as a medium of exchange,
especially in international trade.  The Austro-Hungarian
government continued to issue them long after her
death.  They were even issued for a period of time
by the British government, and by the Austrian government
in the 20th century after the dissolution of the Hapsburg
monarchy.  Seignorage and all that.  They were by then
no longer acceptable for paying taxes in Austria (and
never were in Britain), but the governments were making
money selling them to the middle eastern traders where
they were much revered.  Nobody is currently issuing
them.  I think around 1960 was the end of it.  I saw a very
interesting paper about this recently somewhere, but I
apologize that I have forgotten the title, author, and location.
Maybe somebody out there can track it down.
      BTW, I have been aware of this personally.  As
recently as 20 years ago, M-T dollars were still being
used by bedouins in the desert of Sa'udi Arabia as a
medium of exchange.  The Badu were very aware at
all times of the world price of silver.
     OTOH, one for
the chartalists, I suspect they were usable to pay taxes
there as the Sa'udis were very into silver and some of
them would lose huge sums when the silver bubble
burst.  The Qur'an asserts that money should be specie
and the Sa'udi paper money has silver threads in it.
The Hunt brothers had convinced some of them that
the world would go on a silver standard.  The current
de facto leader, Crown Prince Abdullah reputedly lost
several billion dollars in the crash.
      My response to Per has not appeared yet, although
my followup did.  All I said was that real chartalists go
to Keynes and his discussion in The Treatise on Money
on the Babylonian origins of state issued metal monies.
Ted Winslow covered this in much more detail in his
message.  I also said I would shut up about this.....   :-).
Barkley Rosser
----- Original Message -----
From: "John O'Donnell" <jackodonnell@xxxxxxxx>
To: "pdavidso" <pdavidso@xxxxxxx>
Cc: <pkt@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2002 1:18 PM
Subject: Re: two currencies and Korean war


> pdavidso wrote:
> >
> > >===== Original Message From John O'Donnell <jackodonnell@xxxxxxxx>
=====
> > >pdavidso wrote:
> > >>
> > >> >===== Original Message From mosler@xxxxxxxx =====
> > >> >
> > >> >For all practical purposes, however, taxes are the driving force in
> > today's
> > >> >world.
> > >>
> > >> Except in the case of Korea during the war -- which was the whole
purpose
> > of
> > >> my illustration regarding Korean won and military scrip to begin
with.
> > >
> > >Nonsense! Your illustration, as Henry so correctly points
> > >out, supports the chartalist position. The value of the
> > >scrip derived from the ability of servicemen to pay taxes.
> >
> > Sorry but US service men in war zones are exempt from all US taxes! The
scrip
> > was legally usable  only by UJS servicement to purchase goods in on the
base
> > PXs.
>
> Same difference, payments to PXs are payments to a
> government agency.
>
> > >The value to Koreans existed only while they had that value
> > >to servicemen.
> >
> > But the question is why would the Koreans value military scrip if it was
not
> > usable legally by them to purchase anything?
>
> Because it can be used illegally by them to trade with
> servicemen.
>
> > It is, to use Warren's famous example, as if the natives of Outer
Mongolia
> > prefered to use New York City subway tokens for transactions between
> > themselves.
>
> Not quite. Usefulness of such tokens in Outer Mongolia would
> likely depend on Mongolians valuing the tokens for their
> uniqueness or the unlikely circumstance of a tribe of New
> Yorkers temporarily invading Outer Mongolia.
>
> > >> And as long as one can show that there exists one black swan, then
the
> > >> hypothesis that"all swans are white" must be rejected -- as Karl
Popper
> > >> correctly proclaimed.
> > >
> > >Very true, but unfortunately for your argument your "black
> > >swan" is white.
> >
> > Onl;t to the color-blind!  Have you checked your vision lately?
>
> My vision's fine, particularly since I've had the cataracts
> removed. The swan is still white.
>
> --
> -- jbod
>
> Tax Privilege, Not People
> ___________________________________________________
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> .
>