the morality of massacre

["Alan G. Isaac" <aisaac@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Sat, 21 Apr 2001, Henry C.K. Liu wrote:
> As to you idiotic "come clean" challenge, I do not find it necessary
> to respond to you condemnation of China as deficient in Western
> style individual liberty.

Oh, but you do.  And you have.  And now it appears you are growing
increasingly embarrassed as you try to deny the obvious.  You cannot
successfully pretend that ``freedom'' and ``democracy'' are simply
Western notions with no moral import for Chinese politics.

The reason you will not ``come clean'' is becoming obvious.  You are
not willing to condemn the Tiananmen massacre because that steps
outside of the apologetics to which you limit yourself, but you are not
willing to clearly state your support for the action because you know
that will bring you world-wide moral condemnation.  If I am wrong, I
await your clear statement.

> How does one seriously respond to informed challenges like:
> "including the recent slaughter of thousands of citizens who dared
> to suggest that China is ready for greater individual liberties"?

That was a reference to Tiananmen, Henry, and the killings of Chinese
citizens by your beloved PLA. Are my numbers off?  Please correct me
(without citing Chinese government statements please, since these have
consistently conflicted with the reports of witnesses).  Of course it
is hard to know what happened, since the Chinese government forced the
media out. An interesting discussion of China's approach to freedom of the
press can be found at
  http://www.nmis.org/Gate/links/liesink.html
(But I suppose you will claim that notions of evidence and
truth are Western Notions!) Perhaps it was only hundreds killed and
thousands injured. Or prehaps it is an event you do not like to
consider ``recent'' because it shows how obviously false your
``Western Notions'' fable is.

Even today the official stance in China is a lack of shame about the
Tiananmen massacres.
  http://www.timesofindia.com/070301/07nbrs10.htm
This is itself a source of shame for China.

Alan

PS In the interest of full disclosure, I should perhaps mention the
current detention on unspecified charges of an American University
faculty fellow by China.
 http://www.eagle.american.edu/section.cfm/10/2/755
Henry is invited to make any relevant disclosures of his own.