Re: [Pen-l] smart grid question

[Eugene Coyle <eugenecoyle@xxxxxxx>]

On Jun 9, 2009, at 2:18 PM, Gar Lipow wrote in part:

> <snip>
>
> As to he point of a technological solution. Of course the smart grid
> is a technological solution. We are discussing technology. This is a
> context switching game I'm sick of encountering. If you discuss the
> technology, someone says "oh technofix  - why you focusing on
> trivial". If  you discuss politics and economics  you get "Oh, we
> don't  have the technology to do that".  Gene you are a smart guy.
> Please don't waste time with the unfair debating tactic of pretending
> to be unable to walk and chew gum at the same time.
>
> <snip>
Gar, the above is quite remarkable.  I'm arguing my views, not  
debating with you.  I understand that you believe that technology can  
take care of the climate problems.  That's what you wrote in your book  
-- "no hair shirt" - which I take to mean we can go on consuming as  
before, just by switching to renewable energy produced with technology  
that just might work.  I think the "no hair shirt" view is ridiculous,  
but it has been a tenet of the big dollar enviro groups for years.

	My assertion about technology is just that, an assertion of what I  
think -- it is not a debating trick.

I'm a fan of technology and well aware of what is going on.  I've been  
watching American Superconductor for years, since they promised to  
replace copper lines in Detroit 7 or 8 years ago.  I haven't heard  
that is working yet.  They have got a pilot line on Long Island, half  
a mile long.  What they produce best is press releases.  I published  
articles on photovoltaics over 30 years ago and did a study on the  
industry for Gov Jerry Brown almost that long ago.  I've done a lot of  
consulting work on geothermal projects and published on that  
technology.  I am skeptical of technological fixes.  I've watched  
Amory Lovins lead a generation of environmentalists down the primrose  
path of technology fixes to the detriment of the environment and the  
environmental movement.

So lighten up, Gar.  This isn't about debating tricks.

Gene


> And Doyle, no transmission does not store power. It replaces storage.
> The key is that the wind does not blow and the sun does not shine the
> same amount in different places. By connecting wind and sun across
> long distances we get smoother power availability, more of which is
> there when we need it than in separate atomized grids.  So more of the
> power produced is used when it is produced and thus less needs to be
> stored for later use. Long distance transmission in a renewable grid
> would pay for itself in reducing storage costs.  Reducing generation
> costs would be secondary, and not worth the 1 to 2 cent per kWh
> delivered premium.
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