Re: [Pen-l] torture chic

[Max Sawicky <maxbsawicky@xxxxxxxxx>]

I was trying to take it out of personal terms.  Of course if somebody
abused my daughter I would be looking for them with my sand wedge.

Outrage connotes some kind of surprise.  How can this situation
surprise anybody on this list, of all places?  Can you mobilize people
for constructive purposes on the basis of this outrage?  That's a
practical question.  I said I was skeptical.  It has nothing to do
with my daughter or Kitty Dukakis.  Sure you could mobilize me in the
irrelevant, personal hypothetical you posed.

In a way Shane crystallized part of the issue.  The whole unfolding of
this, in principle and on the merits, delegitimizes the entire
two-party political spectrum.  So are they going to dethrone
themselves?  Is anybody else on the basis of this issue?  Would The
Nation magazine call for Obama's impeachment on this basis, even in
your dreams?  Who's left?  Is there hay to be made? I doubt it.  Where
did the fulmination about Abu Ghraib get us?  To Obama?

I confess to befuddlement.  I'd welcome enlightenment.




On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 4:21 PM, Bill Lear <rael@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Thursday, April 23, 2009 at 14:15:38 (-0400) Max Sawicky writes:
>>Olympic gold medal to Bill for Not Getting The Point!
>>...
>
> Well, enlighten me as to your point.  You said you were "struck by all
> the hoo-ha" about "unjustified" torture and felt that "outrage
> ... called for in hopes of remedying the situation" was pointless and
> that it was "cynical" to think the "issue is useful for political
> agitation" (though you might have a go with it yourself despite your
> reservations).
>
> I'm just trying to see this in personal terms: you seem to say that
> "torture happens" and the outrage over it is pointless (something I
> strongly disagree with), and I just wondered if you feel the same way
> about outrage over other unjustified and horrible acts (e.g., rape)
> that have been happening for millenia.  I was certain you could not,
> thus my question.
>
>
> Bill
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