Re: [Pen-l] torture chic

[Jim Devine <jdevine03@xxxxxxxxx>]

Carrol Cox wrote:
> It is absurd to attach special blame to the Bush Administration.

I'm not sure. It depends on whether or not the Clinton administration
(or previous administrations) reduced the prevalence of torture. If
they did, then the Bush League deserves some special blame for
reversing some progress.

Carrol: >And the Shah's SAVAK learned their torture methods from the
CIA.<

Yes, while the CIA taught a lot of other folks about torture
(including in Argentina -- see Philip Agee's INSIDE THE COMPANY).

But I don't think anyone -- including people from outside the US --
really needs to be taught about it. It comes naturally to sadistic
people (by definition?) and such people are recruited by authoritarian
regimes such as that of the Shah (and likely the regime that replaced
it). Many people have to be trained to get beyond their scruples about
torture, but there are usually sadists available to replace them. The
main thing that has to be taught is how to get beyond those damned
scruples, but that's nothing the CIA has to teach.

To the extent that there's a "lore" surrounding torture that has to be
taught to be learned, I'd say it's that torture _does not work_ except
to get people to lie to end the torture and to give pleasure to the
torturers.

It's true that torture terrorizes the people (including those not
subjected to torture) but (1) there are other ways of doing that; and
(2) it can cause growing popular resentment and even resistance
(though it can also end in apathy and passive "going along to fit
in"). If the CIA has to teach some turds as the Shah about anything,
I'd say it's how to use modern psychological (marketing) techniques to
legitimate the regime.
-- 
Jim Devine / "Segui il tuo corso, e lascia dir le genti." (Go your own
way and let people talk.) -- Karl, paraphrasing Dante.
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