Re: [Pen-l] response to global warming. was European carbon market crashing

[Jim Devine <jdevine03@xxxxxxxxx>]

raghu writes:
> Even though I quoted you, my remark above was not directed at you. I
> should have clarified - sorry.

at whom was it aimed? It's best to make it clear who the target of your ire is.

> Instead it was directed at what Gene Coyle referred to as the "most
> people, including many on this list" who don't see runaway growth as a
> big problem.

I wonder if you or Gene has ever done a poll to figure out what "most
people" or "many" on this list believe.

> However I notice that you too make a distinction between combating
> pollution and growth.

are you saying that I shouldn't make a distinction between "combating
pollution" and "combating growth"? So that "growth" (meaning GDP
growth, I presume) = pollution?

I don't see the truth of that equality: it's possible (if unlikely
without a BIG struggle) that social-democratic management could cause
capitalist growth to be cleaner, so that we could see a decoupling of
growth from pollution.

After all, if Los Angeles can cut its water consumption  per
household, almost anything is possible. It went from 460 gallons per
household in 1988 to 396 gallons per household in 1996 and the trend
has continued, I believe. And there's lots of room for more efficient
use of water. (Source of numbers:
http://calclimate.berkeley.edu/20%20Household%20responses%20to%20water%20conservation%20measures.pdf)

> I have said before and I say it again:
> progressives do not talk (and think?) enough about the problem of
> growth. It is simply not in the discourse to the extent it should be.
> If it is there, it is there as a footnote, an afterthought. The
> assumption is that there are other more important, pressing problems
> than the environment.

I don't know if this empirical generalization is true or false.

> And re: the environment it is depressing how "carbon emissions" has
> completely monopolized the discourse. As if there are not other (only
> indirectly related) problems that need addressing - like water
> scarcity, food quality, land use etc.

I'm not able to talk (or think) about everything at once. Can you?

-- 
Jim Devine / "Segui il tuo corso, e lascia dir le genti." (Go your own
way and let people talk.) -- Karl, paraphrasing Dante.
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