Re: [Pen-l] response to global warming. was European carbon market crashing

[Jim Devine <jdevine03@xxxxxxxxx>]

me:
>> My position, in case anyone asks, is that capitalism is set up so that
>> almost everyone is highly dependent on their money incomes for
>> survival or getting beyond that. We're hanging on to the tail of a
>> tiger.
>>
>> Because of this dependence, cutting incomes or even keeping them
>> constant without instituting massive methods of non-market
>> distribution -- i.e., something like a revolution -- would be a
>> disaster for almost everyone. It would be like a repeat of the Great
>> Depression.

raghu:
> In other words, until the Revolution comes, we must have (GDP) growth!
> I am afraid this argument (apology?) is completely bogus.

NO!! I explicitly allowed for social democratic management of
capitalism, which does not require a revolution. And I didn't say that
we must have GDP growth: rather, if we don't have it, there will be
costs. This is because almost everyone is dependent on the market to
live.

Please don't misinterpret what I say.

> You are not explicitly admitting it, but in reality you are
> prioritizing some issues over others. Things like, for instance
> universal health care must happen at once. But ecological issues like
> unsustainable growth - well that can wait for the Revolution.

This is not what I said. Please don't misinterpret what I say.

I am all in favor of dealing with the problem of unsustainable growth.
For example, as a marginal (non-Revolutionary) change, we could impose
a carbon tax. Even Clinton/Gore talked about this. If the capitalists
are unhappy with it, we could use the revenues to buy them a few
electric- and wind-powered yachts.

> I disagree. I think we should be talking as loudly about the growth
> disease as about other things like health care.

You disagree with an opinion that is a product of your own imagination.
-- 
Jim Devine / "Segui il tuo corso, e lascia dir le genti." (Go your own
way and let people talk.) -- Karl, paraphrasing Dante.
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