Re: [Pen-l] response to global warming. was European carbon market crashing

[Eugene Coyle <eugenecoyle@xxxxxxx>]

Let me back up a bit because this is important on dealing with global warming.  Assume for my argument that the studies that say that despite the carbon tax, US GDP, i.e. income will rise relentlessly in the future.  (Unfortunately most people, including many on this list, see that as an unquestioned good thing.)  I'm not saying the carbon tax raises income but that income rises despite it.  So then we;ll use more energy.

Joseph Green has been making interesting points against Cap & Trade and the carbon tax but I think an even worse thing to say about them is that they are business as usual with clean energy.  That will be terrible.

Gene Coyle

On Feb 10, 2009, at 1:09 PM, Jim Devine wrote:

Gene Coyle wrote:

Jim, the obvious answer to your "What is that something?" is income.

So if there's a significant carbon tax imposed, that would _raise_
incomes, causing an increase in the demand for carbon-based fuels
(assuming that these are "normal" goods)? This might happen if the
carbon tax were imposed as part of some larger program. But what was
Tom thinking about what was happening when he wrote the following?

we can produce cleaner energy... and the cleaner we can make it the more we'll use.<

Maybe cleaner energy would be less expensive on the market than what
we use now (breaking _my_ assumption). But if "cleaner" means
"internalizing externalities," I don't see how that can be. If coal
producers are forced to pay the full cost of their operations, those
operations would likely be restricted, hiking the price of coal.
--
Jim Devine / "Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing
in government and business."  -- Tom Robbins
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