Re: [Pen-l] European carbon market crashing

[comvox@xxxxxxxxx]

Carrol Cox wrote: 
> Doug Henwood wrote:
> > 
> >> Yeah, we can't do anything about climate change until the revolution.
> > So I guess that means we're doomed.
> 
> Well, no one has ever offered anything but pure fantasy as an argument
> for the compatibility of growth and evenf the slowing down of global
> warming. So if you want to claim that global warming can be stopped
> wi5htin a capitalist world you have to give _some_evdience (as no one
> ever has) that 
> 
> a) Capitalism can exist without further growth
> 
> b) Capitalist states will be ruled by elites dedicated tos topping
> growth.
> 
> If you can't offer such arguments, the sneer above is sheer humbuiggery
> masquerading as an argument.
> 
> Carrol

No, Carrol, while Doug's statement was an empty sneer, and one based on not 
bothering to examine what I actually advocate, it does raise an important 
point of principle. That is, whether the working class should have its own 
program of environmental demands under capitalism, and fight for them.

You, Carrol, seem to say that it is pure fantasy to imagine that a struggle 
on the environmental issue can accomplish anything under capitalism. But this 
is a do-nothing argument. And you too neglect to examine what I actually 
advocate. 

The situation with the environment is similar to that with regard to the 
livelihood of the working class. It is, indeed, pure fantasy to imagine that 
capitalism will ever stop exploiting the working class, but it is *not* pure 
fantasy for the working class to fight on the front of its livelihood. 
Indeed, Marx correctly said that if the working class gave up this fight, 
"they would be degraded to one level mass of broken wretches past 
salvation...By cowardly giving way in their every-day conflict with capital, 
they would certainly disqualify themselves for the initiating of any larger 
movement." ("Wages, Price and Profit", Ch. XIV) The working class may only 
make partial and temporary advances in the economic struggle, but these 
advances and this struggle are important both for the welfare of the working 
class and for organizing it as a class force. 

Similarly for the environment. In my article, "The coming of the 
environmental crisis, the failure of the free market, and the fear of a 
carbon dictatorship" (www.communistvoice.org/39cKyoto.html) I put forward 
such a program. It doesn't just say, "wait, you'll see, later, under 
socialism, things will be fine". It tries to contribute to pointing out what 
economic changes will be required to deal with the environmental crisis; it 
puts forward a revolutionary perspective about that; and also suggests how to 
link up with activists who don't yet see the need for eliminating capitalism 
or know how to do so, but yet want to fight on the environmental front.

Indeed, it is an attempt to help activists develop a class line in the midst 
of the environmental struggle. This line is to be drawn on the basis of what 
measures will really effectively deal with the threat of global warming and 
the things needed to be done to handle the climate change that is already 
taking place, and it shows how this line also corresponds to a class line in 
the movement.

I'm not going to go into the details here. But a list of the subheads of one 
part of my article will give a bit of an idea of the scope of what must be 
contemplated. Under the overall heading of "Democratic planning and the 
direct regulation of production", it discusses such topics as
-Major changes throughout the economy
-Material balances, not "true cost pricing"
-Large-scale production
-Mass participation
-Planning for mass welfare
-The issue of ownership
-No lasting progress if there is fear of moving towards socialism


-- Joseph



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