Re: [Pen-l] Dying of Consumption

["Jim Devine" <jdevine03@xxxxxxxxx>]

raghu wrote:
>> > More proof that Obama is fundamentally sympathetic to a progressive way
>> > of
>> > thinking. If only progressives can be bothered to try and convince him..

me:
>> In Chicago, where I'm from originally, people learned very quickly to
>> ignore what politicians _said_ and to pay attention to what they
>> _did_. It doesn't really matter what Obama is "fundamentally
>> sympathetic to" if he can't form coalitions to get behind them to
>> counteract the forces that are against them.

raghu now writes:
> Or if popular pressure forces him to act.

Right. Then what does it matter what Obama is "fundamentally
sympathetic to"? (except, as Doug points out, he seems to be
fundamentally sympathetic to capitalism.)

(For balance, I should mention, as I have before, that Obama is likely
relatively good on issues of racism and sexism.)

me:
>> It's hard to imagine Pres. Obama instituting
>>
>> - end of the Iraq war when he's appointing H. Clinton as the Secretary
>> of State and keeping Robert Gates as Secretary of War (oops, I mean
>> "Defense").

raghu:
> It is hard to imagine him *not* ending the Iraq war. That's what he
> campaigned on. Also Gates is just a bureaucrat. As far as I can tell, he
> just follows orders and is in no way opposed to an end to the war. Maybe I
> am mistaken on that.

"that's what he campaigned on"? how many US elections have you
experienced? It's quite common for politicians to forget what they
campaigned for once they're elected.

Getting rid of Gates might send a message to a lot of the established
interest-groups in the Pentagon, saying that "only those military
sorts who want to get out of Iraq NOW will be listened to, since you
pro-war guys have failed miserably."

me:
>> - [universal] health care [insurance] if he's gotten so much money
>> from the very rich and the opposition from the powerful insurance
>> companies has just begun. (It's a bit sad that "universal health care
>> insurance" has already started being watered down to "health care.")

raghu:
> Important not to get hopes up too much on "universal health care", but his
> plan does sound like a considerable improvement on the status-quo.

it's just a plan.

>> I don't see a real mass movement existing at this point that would
>> pressure Obama to shift to the left to counteract the main rip-tide
>> which is pulling him to the right.

raghu:
> That really depends on how the left reacts.

One important part of any left reaction is to avoid any illusions about Obama.
-- 
Jim Devine /  "Nobody told me there'd be days like these / Strange
days indeed -- most peculiar, mama." -- JL.
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