Re: [Pen-l] Re: The fundamental crisis response. was Ecological creditcrunch

[ravi <ravi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Nov 1, 2008, at 5:32 PM, Jim Devine wrote:
> ravi wrote:
> > I have made
> > reference, in the past, to the First Law of Thermodynamics or the  
> > law of
> > conservation of energy. As we continue to grow our consumption, our  
> > material
> > wealth, our populations,  etc, we will (and have) cross(ed) a point  
> > where we
> > destroy the things that sustain us.
>
> The first law only works for closed systems. The Earth is not one of  
> these.

I was referring to this simple fact:

http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/progress/firstlaw.html

The total amount of energy in the universe is constant, although  
energy can be transformed from one form to another.


> > how does one define
> > "poverty"?
>
> One definition is as having less economic, political, and social power
> than anyone else in society, thus being dragged down by a vicious
> circle of the sort that Gunnar Myrdal referred to. It's like being in
> quicksand.


I like that definition. I think it works very well with the thesis put  
forth by me and with Rahnema in the quoted text -- it doesn't at all  
depend on "growth".

	--ravi

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