Re: ABN, not ABB Re: Gary Trudeau, Iraq and Nader

[Drewk <Andrew_Kliman@xxxxxxx>]

To me, this is not about offending the other person, or at least that isn't
the only determinant.  I profoundly disapprove of personal attacks.  I think
people should stick to criticizing ideas, behavior, statements and so on but
not attack individuals.

As for Doug Henwood's latest personal attack on me, I reiterate what I said
before.  It is UNTRUE and SLANDEROUS.  Responsible journalism involves
getting one's facts right.

Andrew Kliman

----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Davies" <dsquared@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <PEN-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: ABN, not ABB Re: Gary Trudeau, Iraq and Nader


oh come on.  To my certain knowledge, Doug and Yoshie know each other via
email correspondence for longer than I've known my girlfriend, and we've got
two kids.  When people have known each other that long, you've got to assume
that they know what they can and can't say before they offend one another.

Meanwhile, back on topic, I learned a couple of days ago that Kerry was the
Senator who launched the original investigation into BCCI, and followed it
through to the point where the Bank of England decided that BCCI had to be
closed down.  That ought to count for at least a little bit in anyone's
estimation; BCCI was a profoundly corrupt institution.

dd

-----Original Message-----
From: PEN-L list [mailto:PEN-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Drewk
Sent: 21 August 2004 00:22
To: PEN-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: ABN, not ABB Re: Gary Trudeau, Iraq and Nader


I profoundly disapprove of personal attacks like this.  And what *evidence*
is there that it is "hard for [Yoshie] to believe that large numbers of
people could be passionately devoted to a cause you don't approve"?

Andrew Kliman

----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Henwood" <dhenwood@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <PEN-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, August 20, 2004 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: ABN, not ABB Re: Gary Trudeau, Iraq and Nader


Yoshie Furuhashi wrote:

>What we have is not a popular movement for "Anybody But Bush" --
>evidenced by the fact that the race is very close, despite all the
>objective problems that afflict the Bush camp -- but an ideology
>manufactured by liberal intellectuals and top-down mobilization by
>liberal millionaires and union officials, spending half a billion.

If you think that, you're really out of touch. Do you know how many
millions of people - billions if you include the world outside the
U.S. - hate GWB with a deep passion and want to see him lose on Nov
2? I realize it's hard for you to believe that large numbers of
people could be passionately devoted to a cause you don't approve of,
but that's the world we live in.

Doug