PEN-L message, Re: Israel pushing for Kurdish state?

In a message dated 7/28/2004 11:41:00 AM Central Standard Time, lookoverhere1@xxxxxxxxx writes:

>Look, mister alienatethepublicwiththenameofmywebsite.com, I actually know Chechens. Real-live Chechens. They live in Moscow. I get drunk with them. They do not support the jihadis.

I am not going to argue this with you.<

Comment

What is called the national factor and oppressed peoples (without quotes) and national movements and the right to self determination within a multinational state system is apparently a source of considerable disagreement. I personally do not consider the various modern nationalists movements to be the meaning of "national movement" or anti-colonial revolts . . . especially within the former Soviet Union.

There are roughly 40 million African Americans and perhaps 30 million Mexicans (incorporating Mexican national minorities and Chicano's) . . . various Indian nations or what I would personally called advanced national groups of Indians . . . Puerto Ricans outside of Puerto Rico but within the multinational state structure and federal system of the American Union . . . the Alaskan Eskimo's . . . the Aleutian and Hawaiian peoples and then the Appalachians and Southern whites who define their heritage very different from Yankee whites and all these peoples are to varying degrees oppressed.

The various ideologists of self determination are asked if they support a seperate state for blacks as more than less advocated as a form of self determination by groups like the Nation of Islam? I mention the Natin of Islam because it is one of the oldest and most influential organizations amongst blacks and its paramount leader . . . Minister Louis . . . called for a Million Man march and brought together one of the largest mass meetings and protest to Washington in the history of America.

This singular action led by Minister Louis set the bar for mobilization and became a radically new form of protest . . . with trade union leaders now calling for a Million Workers March . . . and other segments of the population doing likewise.

Time to get real and compare ones attitude towards their own country men with that of the world.

I am simply interested in the proponents of self determination . . . Lou P . . . and Mr. Green and whether they have any material on their support of Regional autonomy for the Southwest in respects to Mexico and the Chicano.

The sincerity of ones view is made manifest by their attitude toward the brethren in their own country.

How does this self determination formula apply to the American Union in 2004. There are more African Americans in and around metropolitan Detroit than there are Chechens and the Nation of Islam was birthed in Detroit. Do you gentlemen support and advocate for the right of self determination of these real people . . . up to and including the formation of an independent state?

Just curious.

Personally . . . I do not support such a demand and recognize it as no more than the voice of the reactionary and conservative black bourgeoisie and an attempt to further subjugate the African American people and keep the under the heel of capital.

Is self determination for the Indians up to the formation of an independent state supported by the self determination advocates and can they point to any writing on this subject advocating such?

Is self determination for the Mexican, the Alaskan Eskimo's . . . the Aleutian and Hawaiian peoples and then the Appalachians as somewhat distinct from the Southern whites who define their heritage very different from Yankee whites . . . up to the formation of an independent state supported by the self determination advocates and can they point to any writing on this subject advocating such?

Melvin P.