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Re: Putin
- To: PEN-L@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
- Subject: Re: Putin
- From: Louis Proyect <lnp3@xxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 09:39:06 -0400
- User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0
Chris Doss wrote:
I have never seen so much pulling rabbits out of hats in a long time:
"Chechnya never attacked Dagestan, wait, no, it did, but it was only
after Russia attacked Chechnya, wait, no, that's not it either, it
happened before, but the Dagestanis really liked it, wait, no (logical
next step), the Dagestanis were against it, but they are Quislings,
whatever I can come up with to justify my worldview."
This must be a reference to my questioning of your claim that the second
Chechen war was caused by Chechen assault on Russian territorial
integrity. I had no idea you were referring to Chechen incursions into
Dagestan. Since these peoples of the Caucuses were never constituted as
a nation-state entity until they were conquered by the Russian empire in
the 1800s and preserved as such under Stalin's iron-fisted rule, you'll
have to excuse me for regarding Russian interventions here as as nothing
less than power-grabs to protect oil and other geopolitical interests.
In the 19th century there was a struggle against Russian imperialism led
by someone named Shamil, who was like the Mahdi in the Sudan or other
typical Islamic leaders fighting colonial oppression. Here's a bit of
background:
http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/bashiri/CentAsia/Shamil.html
Imam Shamil, (also spelled Shamyl, Schamil, or Schamyl) was born in
1797? in Gimry, Dagestan [now in Russia]. He was the leader of the
Dagestani and Chechen Muslim mountaineers whose fierce resistance
delayed Russia's conquest of the Caucasus for some 25 years.
The son of a free landlord, Shamil studied grammar, logic, rhetoric, and
Arabic, acquired prestige as a learned man and, in 1830, joined the
Muridis, a Sufi (Islamic mystical) brotherhood in the region. Under the
leadership of Ghazi Muhammad, the brotherhood had become involved in a
holy war against the Russians who, in 1813, had wrested the control of
Dagestan from the Persians. After Ghazi Muhammad is killed by the
Russians (1832) and his successor, Gamzat Bek, is assassinated by his
own followers (1834), Shamil is elected to serve as the third imam
(political-religious leader) of Dagestan and the leader of the so-called
Murid Wars.
In order to establish an independent state in Dagestan (1834), Shamil
reorganized and enlarged his Chechen and Dagestan forces and led them in
extensive raids against the Russian positions in the Caucasus region. In
response, in 1838, the Russians sent a fresh expedition against Shamil.
The expedition captured Ahulgo, the mountaineers' main stronghold, but
not Shamil who escaped. In fact, despite triumphant conquests of the
forts and towns of the region, neither that expedition nor subsequent
expeditions succeeded to defeat Shamil.
Eventually, in 1857, the Russians concluded that they must suppress Imam
Shamil once and for all; his reputation had spread not only among the
peoples of the Cacausus but throughout western Europe as well.
Dispatching large, well-equipped forces under generals N. I. Evdokimov
and A. I. Baryatinsky, the Russians surrounded Shamil from all sides.
Shamil fought back. The Russians, however, doubled their efforts making
the situation untenable not only for Shamil but for his followers and
supporters in the villages. The latter began to gradually give in.
Capitalizing on this situation then, the Russians stormed Shamil's
fortress at Vedeno (April 1859) with the hope of capturing him alive.
Shamil, however, was nowhere to be found. Recognizing the trap that the
Russians had prepared for them, he and several hundred of his adherents
had already withdrawn to Mount Gunib. Eventually, however, on August 25
(September 6, New Style), 1859, recognizing the futility of his
resistance in the face of overwhelming odds, Shamil surrounded to the
Russians himself and, indirectly, the independence and freedom of the
peoples of the Caucasus. He was taken to St. Petersburg.
From St. Petersburg, Shamil was exiled to Kaluga, south of Moscow. In
1870, with the Russian tsar's permission, he made a pilgrimage to Mecca.
Shamil died in March 1871, at Medina?, Saudi Arabia.
--
The Marxism list: www.marxmail.org
- Thread context:
- Re: Putin, (continued)
- Re: Putin,
Doug Henwood Tue 22 Jun 2004, 17:58 GMT
- Re: Putin,
Yoshie Furuhashi Tue 22 Jun 2004, 20:24 GMT
- Re: Putin,
Chris Doss Wed 23 Jun 2004, 10:05 GMT
- Re: Putin,
Chris Doss Wed 23 Jun 2004, 12:01 GMT
- Re: Putin,
Louis Proyect Wed 23 Jun 2004, 13:39 GMT
- Re: Putin,
Chris Doss Wed 23 Jun 2004, 13:47 GMT
- Re: Putin,
Louis Proyect Wed 23 Jun 2004, 13:54 GMT
- Re: Putin,
Chris Doss Wed 23 Jun 2004, 13:56 GMT
- Re: Putin,
Louis Proyect Wed 23 Jun 2004, 13:45 GMT
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