Re: the next wedge issue

[Michael Perelman <michael@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Melvin, you oppose gay marriage.  I think that we all understand that by
now.  You are welcome to your opinion, but you should not get personal in
differing with those who differ from you.  Nor should those who differ
with you get personal with you.  So, please calm down.  You made your
opinion known and let's drop the matter.

My original point in mentioning the subject was that gay marriage gets
people emotional and prevents rational discourse.  I did not expect that
observation to apply here on this list.


On Fri, Nov 21, 2003 at 10:12:47AM -0500, Waistline2@xxxxxxx wrote:
> In a message dated 11/20/03 12:50:48 PM Pacific Standard Time, lnp3@xxxxxxxxx
> writes:
> > Why should I not kick their ass. Do you have kids or just stupid?
>
> Melvin, Michael Perelman is probably too busy writing his next book to
> pay attention to this thread but I will not dignify your question with a
> reply. If I were him, I'd give you the boot for sexism and homophobia.
> What you are saying is really ugly. I am reminded of an article that
> appears in the latest Harpers on Clear Channel Communications. Out in
> Denver there are 6 stations owned by this monopoly and they all have
> DJ's that make fag-bashing jokes. When the reporter asks the local
> president of Clear Channel whether that is appropriate, he replies that
> it is only a joke. What if you substituted the word "nigger" for "fag",
> he asks. Would that be as funny? That's the kind of question you should
> be asking yourself.
>
> 1. I have spanked children before. I have spanked them on their little hands
> and buts. In fact I once thumped by daughter - Mikkie, on the head when she
> was four years old, although she was never spanked by me. Her mother spanked her
> before and slapped her face when she was 13. Today she is 25 and just had her
> first baby. Did Mikkie need her face slapped? Well, she hit her mother back
> and I told her that she walks around her other house like she is a damn Queen
> and it is only one Queen per house hould. "Baby girl you are a beautiful
> Princess and it is time for you to come live with your dad before Sandra kick your
> little fannie." Sandra did not object to paying child support. You may suggest
> whatever you want, but people raise their children how they see fit and some
> of us get it right or basically right. What the word "nigger" or  "fag" has to
> do with this is beyond me.
>
> 2. I am not required to support or campaign on behave of homosexual life
> style and this does not make me homophobic. This means I believe it is wrong - not
> a crime.  What the word "nigger" or  "fag" has to do with this is beyond me.
>
> One person wrote:
>
> >Actually, there is no such thing as "a man's penis," right? I mean
> there's your penis, which you have the right to decide where to place.
> And then there's other men and their penises, and I guess the question
> is, do you feel that they have the same right as you -- to put it where
> it feels best?<
>
> To me - IMO, this reads like the opening paragraph of the Pedophile
> Manifesto. Do you understand what it means to say something like this to any section of
> the working class? This is outrageous and I am to be unsubbed? Read the
> paragraph again. This is way beyond sex among consenting adults.
>
> Nevertheless, you are saying that if I advocate spanking children I will be
> kicked off of Marxline? If this is true then you can unsub me now. Children
> need to be spanked at times and its that simple. I will continue to tap their
> little hands when they try and stick objects into wall sockets.
>
> Be a real man Lou and send your address. You can have Shamelle - 30, and her
> two kids (Tapre 8 and Tkala 5) and Edonie - 20. :-)
>
> Now supporting homosexual lifestyle does not make one progressive and not
> supporting this life style does not make one reactionary.
>
> Spanking a child is not child abuse.  What the word "nigger" or  "fag" has to
> do with this is beyond me.
>
> It is you that cannot be taken serious by any parent I know. Nor, do you
> understand the real world of politics and the mechanics of elections - or the
> formation of "social issues" - or the art of political maneuver - or the nature of
> the battle in the ideological sphere. You do not understand how this identity
> movement was shaped in the ideological sphere and for what purpose.
>
> Go back to the 1950s and explore the formation of the concept called
> "teenager" in the ideological sphere and critically look at the evolution of the
> so-called nuclear family. You understand nothing of the property relations and the
> evolution of value and its social impact. It is in fact you that lack any
> critical understanding brother!
>
> You do not get it!
>
> I am telling you that I voted against extending benefits to same sex couples
> and voted in favor of extending benefits to all couples. The group of us that
> voted for benefits to all couples were defeated by the people who said "NO
> BENEFITS TO ALL COUPLES AND THEIR CHILDREN" - BENEFITS TO HOMOSEXUAL COUPLES
> ONLY."
>
> It is you who do not understand real world politics. And I am reactionary and
> need to be unsubed for spanking my child's hand! This is outrageous.  This is
> Pen-L and I can abhor homosexuality. This does not make it a crime against
> the state or anything like that.
>
> Have you any idea what a social movement is and on what basis social
> movements gyrate?
>
> Melvin P.

--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929

Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail michael@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx