Re: the next wedge issue

[joanna bujes <jbujes@xxxxxxxxx>]

fair enough. sorry--

Joanna

andie nachgeborenen wrote:

> Yes, and? Look, I was just saying that I didn't think
> that the only reason that homosexuslity was a
> lightning rod was that people thought that God hates
> fags. I said taht in my experience many peoples eem to
> find the thought disgusting. I did not offer a theory
> as to why. I did not say that the hatred was
> independent of social conditioning, and I didn't say
> that some people who display socially approved
> attitudes about male homosexuality don't engage in the
> behavior. Any other straw men for me explain that I
> also don't mean?
>
> --- joanna bujes <jbujes@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
> > Well, Christ!, Justin. Many college students still
> > find oral sex
> > viscerally disgusting...it takes a while. Besides,
> > one thing I can tell
> > you is that while men may publically gag at the idea
> > of having sex with
> > another man, when they get older, like say, after
> > 40, they all start to
> > come clean about a variety of homosexual
> > experiences. It surprised me
> > too, but I have just been amazed at the number of
> > men who have confessed
> > something like this to me in the last five years.
> >
> > So, you know, there's the publicly display
> > attitude...and then there's
> > what people actually do.
> >
> > Joanna
> >
> > andie nachgeborenen wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > I didn't say "hardwired and independent of social
> > > conditioning," I said "visceral," meaning, "gut,";
> > I
> >
> >
> > > wasn't speculating about its cause or origin. I
> > used
> >
> >
> > > to see this when I was teaching. Ohio students
> > found
> >
> >
> > > (male) homosexuality to be, eeww, yuck, gross,
> > > dis-GUST-ing. How would you describe that except as
> > > "visceral"? And their religious beliefs weren't
> > > determinative,a lthough the Godly definitely were
> > more
> >
> >
> > > likely to share this reaction. So I mean, just
> > > independent of religious beliefs. As you knwo, I
> > don't
> >
> >
> > > believe that it is even _coherent_ to talk about
> > any
> >
> >
> > > sort of behaviore independently of social
> > > conditioning. (I'll send you a paper on this that I
> > > can'ts eem to get published . . . )jks
> > >
> > > --- joanna bujes <jbujes@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > > But therea re lot of people who have a visceral
> > > > > disgust about sexual behavior different from
> > theirs
> >
> >
> > > > > that is independent of any religiosu beliefs.
> > > > "Visceral"? I'm skeptical. Aren't you the one who
> > > > argues against the
> > > > causative value of "inborn" anything.
> > > > Do you mean "visceral disgust" independent of
> > > > religious beliefs only? or
> > > > also independent of social conditioning?
> > > >
> > > > Joanna
> > > __________________________________
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>
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