[PEN-L:33229] Re: Bush Administration On The Poor: Pay More Taxes!

[Bill Lear <rael@xxxxxxxxxx>]

On Thursday, December 19, 2002 at 10:44:24 (-0500) Ellen Frank writes:
>Bill --  I haven't participated in pen-l in quite a while, so
>maybe, not knowing who I am, you misread my intent.
>(maybe this is why I stopped participating in pen-l!).
>I am playing devil's advocate here.  ...

I realize this.

>                                ...  My students are not
>dumb and I am a very good teacher, BUT.. The ideology
>of capitalism runs much deeper in the US public than
>the anti-capitalist ideology (I think Marx had something to
>say about this).

I don't think your students are dumb, and I doubt you are a poor
teacher.  However, if they can't make the argument, as I said, you've
got to work harder to figure out the answer, which I assume is what
you are trying to do with your posts here.

I think your questions are very pertinent, and it's very helpful to
have them brought up and defended (devil-wise).

Doug's quote of Smith I think is very useful: it makes you realize
that wealth is the result of a contract --- you are given the option
of using the protection of the state in return for a taxation scheme
it devises.  If you don't agree to that, you have no obligation to buy
a business and rent the labor of others for profit --- you have the
option of renting yourself to someone else.  Of course, this social
arrangement sucks.  It forces people to be either masters or slaves,
both of which degrade our humanity, but under those conditions,
meaning you accept the fact that there are masters and slaves
("classes", if you prefer), the system of progressive taxation is
totally justifiable on simple contractual grounds.

I think the point I made earlier supports this: if you go through the
effort of bringing out the details hiding behind the abstractions, you
can easily come to the conclusion that the rich benefit tremendously
from the state and the state has every right to ask for support in
return.  The hard part is to show how much the rich benefit.  This
requires real digging, both evidentially and psychologically, as we
have been brainwashed since youth that the rich got their riches from
the sweat of their brow, their persistence, their intelligence and
humanity, their patience, conservatism, maturity, steely nerves, and
kindred heroic qualities.  Simply looking into the form of a
corporation --- nothing more than a creation of government, a legal
fiction --- and how it confers tremendous advantages on the owners
would be a good starting point; and Adam Smith had some cautious words
to say about such "combinations", as did many other conservative
figures in the early years of the U.S. (see, for example, Charles
Sellers book *The Market Revolution*).

I think the effort to make the argument is well worth it and I hope
you stick with it and share your results.


Bill