[PEN-L:29860] utopianism??

["Devine, James" <jdevine@xxxxxxx>]

Title: utopianism??

[was: RE: [PEN-L:29857] Re: Re: Re: "Russia turns to yuan"]

>>Shortage of oil? Not in this world. The shortage is in our vision and
>imagination.
>
>Melvin P.

Louis P:>
Even under socialism, there would be dwindling supplies of oil just as
there are dwindling supplies of water. Unless Melvin's "vision and
imagination" includes serious and *measurable* proposals for how to
conserve energy, water, etc., we can't be taken seriously as an alternative
to the bourgeoisie. 125 years ago there was little difference between the
bourgeoisie and Marxism over how to relate to nature. It was seen as both
an unlimited tap for natural resources and a sink for industrial waste. We
can no longer think in these terms. Socialism must first and foremost
consider ways in which farming can be sustainable. This involves
reintegration of the city and the countryside, just as Marx calls for in
the CM.<

when you advocate "measureable proposals," are you saying that we need to develop "recipes for the cook-shops of the future"? I thought you were against utopianism.

------------------------
Jim Devine jdevine@xxxxxxx &  http://bellarmine.lmu.edu/~jdevine