[PEN-L:29561] Re: Engels, homophobia and the left

[Waistline2@xxxxxxx]

In a message dated 8/17/02 9:32:48 AM Pacific Daylight Time, lnp3@xxxxxxxxx writes:


> In keeping with the overall honesty of "Revolution in the Air", Max
> Elbaum admits that the New Communist Movement held fairly retrograde
> ideas on same-sexers:
>
> "The first wave of party builders also foundered in addressing the
> oppression of gay men and lesbians. Doctrinally, most of the movement
> simply ignored this issue, though the Guardian did decide by 1971 that
> it was appropriate to include opposition to discrimination against gays
> under the broad rubric of defending democratic rights. But whatever was
> formally said or not said, for the most part the movement's attitude
> toward homosexuality and the gay movement was decidedly negative.
> Fundamentally, most Marxist-Leninists shared the homophobia prevalent in
> society as a whole, and on the issue of gay rights they surrendered to
> prejudice instead of analyzing and opposing it."
>
> While most of the left, including these Maoists, eventually superseded
> this kind of backwardness, a few individuals and sects continue to bash
> gays. Among them is a micro-sect in Germany called Neue Einheit that was
> a continuing nuisance in the dark ages of Marxism on the Internet. When
> their gay-baiting reared its ugly head on an email list initiated by
> Mark Jones called Leninist-International, lines were drawn over whether
> homophobia was compatible with Marxism. Those who felt that homophobia
> was okay eventually launched an email list called Marxism-Leninism that
> is singularly meat-heated on all sorts of questions, including gay
> liberation.
>
> Neue Einheit's specialty is dredging through the writings of well-known
> leaders and thinkers in the Marxist movement in order to find some
> particularly nasty crack against gays.
> (http://www.neue-einheit.com/english/homoeng.htm) It is not surprising
> that you could find something like this in Engels's private
> correspondence since he was a product of the Victorian era despite his
> advanced thinking on the need for socialism.


One can of course access the state of the homosexuals movement today for what it is worth. By this is meant that I was one of those in the early 1970s and later when the old Communist Labor Party was formed that voted against adopted a political platform for homosexuals as part of our party program. I also voted against creating a specific point in our program dealing with child support and spoke against it at are first founding convention. I would speak against these issues currently because a program of the working class outlines its economic issues period.

This of course expalins why Marx and Engles would not address the issue in cradting a program for the class and it articles like the Critique of the Gotha Program.  The fact of the matter - in my opinion, is that not class insociety cvan be united or made aware of the issues and lwas governing its survival outside of economic logic.

One can of course support sexual relations by member of the same sex and be communist or fascist. One can abhor sex by members of the same sex and be communist or fascist. I personally advocate - which means I teach my children, that sex between men and women is the societal norm as the historic basis for the reproduction of the specifies. The conduct of the individual is none of my business or for that matter the business of the state.

There are of course historically evolved cultural attitudes towards homosexuality, but the sector of the proletariat from which I come has never expressed what we perceived as a hostile and violent behavior towards homosexuals as a societal force.

Advocating against homosexuality as a life style is not necessarily a phobia. Advocacy is what one instills in their children and voice their opinion about. In my circumstances and specific culture the idea of being violent against someone that is different from you is generally unacceptable.

I don't condone the actions of the degenerate urban street thugs who pray on the unorganized and individual. I have investigate and considered the question of homosexuality carefully because my younger brother was always homosexual and contracted the "AIDS virus."  My wife and I got involved in this issue. This was during a period - the late 1980s and early 90s when very few organizations existed to help those afflicted and I personally spent time on the AIDS ward of Detroit General Hospital.

I have an opinion about the causes of AIDS and its origin but it is not relevant. I have an opinion concerning the catalyst that causes the breakdown of the immune system. but it is hardly as important as the doctrine of the class struggle and rearing a generation in the Marxist Method. My opinion is based in my work and the various studies I examined in the course of the battle for my brothers life.

This story gets interesting because my mother was a nurse who felt she was a doctor. We had different modality. I aimed for eliminating the build up of the excessive mucus deposits in the lymphatic system as the fundamental approach. The secondary line of define was to restore the "proper" alkalinity of the blood content through the use of selected vegetation. Proper vegetation meant iron - not oxide, but organic iron - phosphate, spcecially 7.1 - 7.2.

In the drug clinic that Marion was one of the administrators, the drug companies offered all kinds of cocktail mixtures that inevitable killed the patient. The people - as a mass, that did not take the cocktails live longer.

No Marxism was involved in understanding the convulsion or rather conclusion: don't take the cocktail. Advocating this solution involved an economic problem that assumed political dimensions because  the institution made money from the cocktail.

I must regress.

In American we like to forget and live under the conditions of the ideological absurd. AIDS supposed to come from Africans having sex with gorillas which is somehow akin to sex relations between member of the same sex. To cure my brother I spend a fortune importing herbs from China. This works but not because of the herbs from China, but I do not know this at the time.

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