[PEN-L:28657] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Drudgery

[ravi <gadfly@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Justin Schwartz wrote:
>
> Why would be a such a great idea to have the demos tell college
> professors how to run their shop? In most of this country, that would
> result in the shut-down of biological departments, except for ag depts,
> the conversion of most philosophy depts into bastions of conservative
> Christian fundamentalism, etc. All the remaining socialists would be
> fired at once. For that matter, what does the demos know about surgery?
> Would you want to be operated on by medical professionals who were
> accountable, in doing their job, to anything but their expertise?
> Likewise, if I may say so, with us legal professionals. Would you want
> my considered legal judgment, given as best as I can give it, or my
> judgment as informed and limited by what a bunch of people who know no
> law nor how the legal system works nor anything much except that they
> don't like lawyers because we are all greeedy rich crooks?
>
> In my typical, class-blinkered, petty bourgeois manner, I am a real fan
> of expertise. Democracy has its place, but not in micro-managing the use
> of real expertise by real experts. There are skills that require long
> study and constant application to master, and where the opinion of the
> populace has no damn role, except indirectly in setting general ethical
> standards and rules and regulations embodied in law. Don't tell me how
> to manage my shop.
>


pkf has argued for democratizing science and has presented a particular
version of what that means. i believe that addresses the
micro-management problem (and levitt's concern that democracy has
outlived its use) while still presenting a valid critique of the grey
(definitely scientists/geeks are best described by the colour grey?)
wall of elitism; the attempts to question which is often the sole
reason for invoking the anger of men science/technology (which in turn
yielded him the title 'the worst enemy of science'). since i know that
you are aware of those (pkf) arguments, i will jump to asking you what
you think about them. perhaps i will restate ian's point to say that
technologists resist democratization of their field *at all levels and
stages*.

your points about religious fundamentalists and conservatives running
the system seems similar to the defense offered by those who suggest
voting for gore rather than nader was the right thing to do. i do not
know which is the right thing (and from my privileged position, i am
loathe to commit the "masses" to the sort of upheaval that the radical
position might effect), but surely there are counter-arguments to this
doomsday scenario?

carrol: i would say, in response to your question about software
engineers, that both gates and the technologists who work for him
(and i would differentiate them from your regular software engineer,
who is an educated robot imported from india) resist democratization.
i wouldnt be too preposterous in stating that many of the obtuse
constructs employed in software design and development, while on the
one hand designed to give the field the legitimacy of a real science,
on the other, seems [subconsciously] motivated by elitism. in some
ways, i could argue (unfortunately echoing perhaps conservative
opinion) that microsoft provides a democratization of the software
process through its pragmatic, user-friendly approach, over the more
esoteric and tightly controlled model of the open software movement
(despite eric raymond's noises about the "bazaar" - the bazaar is
a bunch of high-tech software development gurus and their high-tech
users). while richard stallman (of the free software foundations) at
least attempts to bring about revolutionary change (however
misguided his theory might be), the attempts of those who oppose him
in the open source movement seems often to be driven by the pleasure
of technical one-upmanship, nevermind what the users think (and i
confess to some exaggeration here).

(now i shall go atone in private for saying something positive about
microsoft in public ;-)).

	--ravi