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[PEN-L:27332] Re: Re: LTV and income disparity



Unemployment, or whatever you want to call it, had different effects on the economy before capitalism, of course. I never said otherwise. SO did trade, and technological progress, and lots of other things. You wouldn't say therewas no trade before capitalism just because it had different effects on the economy. But I was responding to the Blautian line that everything was just wonderful before capitalism--no unemployment! high living standards! disalienated labor!--which of course is whay it is racist to deny that the thordworld didn't invent capitalism before white people did. I have no idea why this farrago of anachronisms has any appeal for anyone. It represents a very serious decline in left understandings of the world political economy, and helps delay analytical progress. jks


Justin Schwartz wrote:
>
> > >>
> >There was no unemployment before capitalism.
> >
>
> Absolutely false. In England, for example, in the 14th and 15th centuries,
> vagabondage--landless migrant would-be workers--was a huge social problem.
> In ancient Rome, there was the proletariat--a term that meant "those whose
> only function is to breed."
>


I haven't been following this thread, and I don't know who it is you're
responding to here, but I think the proposition "There was no
unemployment before capitalism" may be tautologically true. If X
thousands of peasants are forced off the land in what is essentially a
tributary "economy," you certainly have X thousand "without a way to
subsist," but there's a certain anachonism to referring to them as
"unemployed." Odysseus returns to Ithaca as a  _thetis_ (I haven't
checked to see if I'm remembering the term correctly), usually
translated "beggar," but what it means non-anachronistically is "a man
not attached to an _oikos_, a status _lower_ than that of a slave. But
it would be utterly confusing to use the modern concept of
"unemployment" in glossing the _Odyssey_.

I don't know enough in any detail about 1300-1500 in England to argue
over that "economy," but I would be doubtful that the modern concept of
the "industrial reserve army" would apply -- nor would their inability
to purchase commodities have affected the "realization of surplus." They
weren't "unemployed," they were merely marginal -- they had more in
common with the _thetis_ than with unemployed in a capitalist economy.

Carrol




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