Re: Re: RE: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Doug tells thetruth..........................

[Michael Perelman <michael@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

I did not read Max's comments about the lack of civil liberties at first.
I have to agree with Justin.  I find the "war" disgusting.  I don't think
that the bombing of Sudan or the sanctions on Iraq have any more claim to
morality than the attack on the World Trade Center.



On Mon, Nov 26, 2001 at 05:54:55AM +0000, Justin Schwartz wrote:
> >
> >Now let us all bow our heads in a moment of silence over
> >the impending demise of several thousand fascist,
> >anti-semitic, misogynist terrorists.  (One suspects
> >they are not down with the GBLTGTS thing either.)
> >Oh woe!  They won't get fair trials.
> >They won't get public defenders.
> >They won't get three meals a day.
> >They won't get cable tv.
> >They will receive much as they have given.
>
> Max, this is genuinely vile. The people who require due process are first of
> all the shits and scumbags. The principle that no person shall be deprived
> of life or liberty without due process of law doesn't make an exception for
> the bad guys. I am astounded that I have to explain this to you. There are
> several reasons for this. In the first place, without due process, we have
> no assurance that we are getting the guilty and not the innocent. Most,
> perhaps all, of the Taliban and maybe many al-Quaida members, despicable as
> their politics may be, had nothing more to do with 9/11 than you did. Does
> that matter in your equation, or is it enough for you that they are
> antisemites and misogynists? In which case there are a lot of people who can
> be rounded up and railroaded, but we sort have to abandon the First
> Amendment.
>
> In the second place, you're next. Do you think that if the principle of
> abandoning due process when the targets are bad guys is accepted that it
> will stop with foreign members of organizations that the US has designated
> terrorist?
>
> I don't know what has got into you. This is the ABC of liberal democracy.
> These are hard won victories that cost the blood of many tens of thousands
> or more. And you are gloating about throwing them away and handing the axe
> to people for whom the difference between you and al-Qaida is insignificant.
> Why have you gone stupid and contemptible just at this moment when we need
> every person we can find standing behind civil liberties? Please come back,
> we miss the old Max!
>
> jks
>
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--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929

Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail michael@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx