2. [Fwd: Re: Problems of Relativism of Non-Postmodern Varieties]

[Carrol Cox <cbcox@xxxxxxxxx>]

The second of three.

Carrol

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Problems of Relativism of Non-Postmodern Varieties
Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1998 10:03:27 -0400
From: farmelantj@xxxxxxxx (James Farmelant)
Reply-To: marxism@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
To: marxism@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
CC: marxism@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
References:
<s5b74ea4.012@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx><v04011702b1dde9abb4cd@[128.146.5.21]>

I would agree with Yoshie that relativism would still be a part of
the common sense of people living under late capitalism regardless
of whether postmodernism existed or not. However, I think
that the point that Frederic Jameson was making (and which was
reiterated on this list both by Jim Heartfield and myself) was that
postmodernism constitutes a theoretical expression of this
'common sense' relativism and that this relativism in both
its 'common sense' forms and in the form of pomo theory
is a reflection of the type of consciousness prevalent in a
society that is dominated by market relations.

			Jim Farmelant

On Fri, 24 Jul 1998 03:11:30 -0500 Yoshie Furuhashi
<furuhashi.1@xxxxxxx>
writes:
>When you read our contemporary marxist discussions of postmodernism,
>you
>would think that without postmodernism, there would not be relativism
>or
>problems associated with it. This masks the nature of relativism and
>its
>effects among the massses of people in core capitalist countries.
>
>With or without postmodernism, relativism would exist in 'common
>sense' of
>people in the USA and Japan (the two countries I have lived in).
>
>Relativism of the kind that common people often subscribe to has
>nothing to
>do with postmodernism as _philosophy_. Most Americans and Japanese
>can't
>explain what postmodernism is if they are asked to describe it. It has
>more
>to do with the social conditions where no significant mass movement
>(which
>would rise up to contest or rip asunder the Official Truth or ideology
>and
>whose effects would affect the social relations significantly or
>change it
>totally), the political conditions that have, to a large extent,
>institutionalized 'liberal pluralism' and 'interest group politics,'
>the
>ideological conditions where the mass media have come to display some
>dirty
>tricks of the ruling class as 'open secrets' (which we 'know' but are
>not
>supposed to make much of), to hide others as 'classified for the
>reasons of
>national security,' to muddle people's minds by producing the effects
>of
>'deniability,' and so on, and finally the economic conditions where
>quite a
>lot of people occupy 'contradictory social positions' (who don't own
>or
>control capital but have significant work autonomy and some
>ideological
>power over other workers).
>
>Under the conditions that I described just above, many common people
>resort
>to a kind of commonsense (non-philosophical) relativism: 'I have my
>opinion, you have yours, let's agree to disagree.' It's a way for
>people to
>manage their personal relations with a minimum of painful conflicts
>and not
>to engage in further investigation, debates, etc. which might produce
>knowledge and desire for collective political actions. And it is these
>conditions that marxists should attack, if we are in any way
>interested in
>contesting relativism, as most here claim that they do. You guys, in
>my
>view, overestimate the influence of postmodern philosophy and
>underestimate
>the problems of people's 'common sense.'
>
>Yoshie Furuhashi
>

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