Re: Tautologies, trivial & non-trivial, was Re:[Fwd: Position

[Rod Hay <rodhay@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Carrol: Go to the library get out an elementary algebra or logic text. Read the definition of a tautology.

Rod

Carrol Cox wrote:

> Charles is of course correct. I guess what I thought was a
> truism ("Everyone knows that there exist both trivial and
> non-trivial tautologies") is in fact false. If you check, you will
> find that careful writers very frequently specify whether a
> tautology they refer to is trivial or non-trivial. Roughly, a
> tautology is non-trivial if it brings out relationships which
> would otherwise go unnoted. The following tautology is
> anything but trivial:
>
>             a+b=b+a
>
> Or
>
>             IF a+b=b+a, THEN 1+2=2+1
>
> The tautology "Capitalism will collapse" is another way of
> saying "All sublunary existence is mutable." I forget the exact
> words of the cliche, but it is an old one. The problem with
> trivial tautologies is the illusion they create of profundity.
> And usually, unlike non-trivial tautologies, trivial tautologies
> conceal rather than emphasize their tautological nature. This
> can lead to real confusion (as it did in the present case)
> when someone tries to doubt the tautology (as in Doug sneering
> at the supposed originality of "Capitalism will collapse") Doug
> must have assumed that the tautology, "Capitalism will collapse"
> affirmed the non-tautology: "Socialism will triumph."
>
> Note that all syllogisms are tautological -- the conclusion merely
> restates what was already present in the premises.
>
> Carrol
>
> Carrol
>
> Charles Brown wrote:
>
> > If you are implying that there are no non-trivial tautologies, isn't mathematics all about non-trivial tautologies ? All equations are tautologies, no ?
> >
> > CB
> >
> > >>> khanly@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 06/29/00 07:02PM >>>
> > Is this in contrast to non-trivial tautologies?
> >      Cheers, Ken Hanly
> >
> > Carrol Cox wrote:
> >
> > > Doug Henwood wrote:
> > >
> > > > M A Jones wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >But capitalism will collapse anyway.
> > > >
> > > > Right. Where have I heard that one before?
> > >
> > > Actually the prediction was made by many old guys millenia ago
> > > before capitalism was ever heard of. You know, the old stuff about
> > > the rise and fall of this or that. ONe doesn't have to be even remotely
> > > a marxist to know this. Now *dating* it -- that's something else.
> > >
> > > And of course it is also another quesion whether the collapse will
> > > be followed by socialism or barbarianism. But who can seriously
> > > object to the abstract proposition that "Capitalism will collapse."
> > > It seems a rather trivial tautology.
> > >
> > > Carrol

--
Rod Hay
rodhay@xxxxxxxxxx
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