Re: racism, eurocentrism

[Rod Hay <rodhay@xxxxxxxxxx>]

If it was eurocentric, does that mean, you think it was wrong?

Rod

Sam Pawlett wrote:

> Bill Burgess wrote:
> >
> > If I understood Sam's comments correctly, he argues 1) it was Eurocentric
> > to expect a revolution in Germany in 1918-19,
>
> No, it wasn't euro-centric to expect a revolution there and then, it was
> eurocentric to presume that such a revolution was a necessary and maybe
> even a sufficient condition to lead world socialism. This is the view I
> was arguing against. Right up until his death Trotsky maintained that
> the survival of the USSR and world socialism depended on revolution in
> the imperialist countries.
>
>  that 2) Lenin rejected Roy's
> > emphasis on the importance of the revolutions in colonial countries,
>
> Not really. Lenin and Roy had similiar views but Roy took Lenin's
> reasoning a bit differently. Roy accepted the importance and centrality
> of revolution in the imperialist countries and accepted that the
> docility of the Western proletariat was ,to a large extent, the result
> of the surplus value generated in the colonies with which the Western
> bosses could pay off or bribe the worknig class into reformism rather
> revolution. Roy believed that since no revolution in Germany or
> elsewhere was forthcoming this surplus value would have to be cut off at
> the source i.e. through revolutions in the south and east in order to
> press the western working class into revolutionary agency. And maybe
> give them some confidence and an example (this was also Marx's argument
> that I cited previously). Lenin didn't go this far into proto Maoism.
>
>  and
> > that 3) the Eurocentric policy of the Comintern led to disasterous
> > alliances with the bourgeoisie in countries like China, Turkey and Indonesia.
>
>  The alliances were disastrous and it was partly because of
> eurocentrism-- socialism wasn't possible in such backward places
> independent of European revolution.  It was a conundrum. The bourgeosie
> in said countries was acting
> in important anti-imperialist ways but at the same time repressing
> (usually savagely) domestic revolutionaries. Kemal asked Lenin for aid
> to kick out the Greeks and got it, despite the situation in Russia in
> 1918-1920. Russia signed all sorts of treaties with governments who were
> murdering communists including the Treaty of Rapallo (1922) with Germany
> and it was Russia that called the shots at the comintern.
>
> > 2) In fact, at the Third Congress (or the Second?) Lenin changed his
> > original position and endorsed part of Roy's approach on the colonial
> > revolution.
>
> Right, at the second congress, this was later reversed at the 3rd and
> subsequent congresses. Roy was given 5 minutes to speak at the third
> congress (!) I have the second congress resolution around here somewhere
> but can't find it right now. There was also the view that the peoples of
> the south and east must liberate themselves.
>
>  I think that part of the shift in the Lenin's position was to
> > accept Roy's sharper formulation of how unreliable allies the colonial
> > bourgeoise classes were, and to clarify that the class struggle in these
> > countries had a different strategic framework than in the imperialist
> > countries. How is it Eurocentric to programitically codify the rejection of
> > the Second International's 'socialist colonial policy'?
>
> I don't understand your question. Roy and other southern delegates to
> the 3rd congress did compare the Comintern's policy to the Second int'l.
> I can't find the documentation right now. Tomorrow.
>
> >
> > 3) I'm sure Sam is well aware of it, so I wonder why he ignores the
> > cardinal differences between the Stalinist policy of the Comintern in
> > China, Turkey and Indonesia and the 'Lenin-Roy' approach adopted by the
> > Third Congress?
> >
>
> There were important theoretical differences between the Lenin and
> Stalin-Zinoviev comintern but these differences came to nothing in
> practice. The Comintern  blew it for many reasons, one of them being
> eurocentrism.
>
> Sam Pawlett

--
Rod Hay
rodhay@xxxxxxxxxx
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