Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anti-Eurocentrism: IdealistDiversionfromAnti-r...

[Rob Schaap <carob@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

G'day Ted and Justin,

Well, I've seen quite a few football mobs in my time, and, whilst a large
skinhead or 'bovver-boy' contingent was ever present, the violent mob
mentality was (a) not inevitable (it only took hold sometimes, albeit
predictably so if traditional rivals were avisiting - eg Liverpool, Man City
or Leeds Utd coming to Man Utd's Old Trafford) and (b) very scatter-gun
(anyone wearing the wrong scarf at first, and after that, anyone in the
way).  In other words, what I mostly saw, and was sometimes pulled into
(although I was 14 and never actually hit anyone), was white working class
youths (not all youths but the vast majority were) trading kicks with white
working class youths in post-match running encounters through the city.
Nick Hornby's 'Fever Pitch' (the film was sweet but the book was brilliant)
explains this better than anyone else.  We wanted to belong, we wanted to
feel powerful, we wanted people to fear us, and we (spotty poor little farts
that most of us were) could only do that as masses.

For a couple of hours on a Saturday evening, we mattered.  Simple as that, I
reckon.

I'd say the main determinants of whether it was going to be an aggro day or
not were (1) who the opposition du jour was, (2) how aggressive the cops
were as we were funnelled into the ground, and (3) whether the home side
lost.  In that order.

At any rate, race was not the construct uppermost in minds.  It was
micro-tribal (eg. Mancunians versus Scousers or Northerners versus
Southerners - in Glasgow, more explicitly than in Manchester or Liverpool,
it was Mick versus Proddy).

To the degree that ethnic tension disclosed itself to my adolescent eyes, it
was mainly that engendered by the Indo-Pakistani War (in which connection
the relatively few white boys on the estate were often unwittingly ascribed
an affiliation - I discovered I was an ascribed Indian in most unfortunate
circumstances) and, yeah, Form 3A was mostly white, 3B a little less so, and
3D entirely brown.

In other words, racism was more explicit and salient in our daily brushes
with establishment institutions than it was at the Saturday arvo 'barney'.

We were pathetic, perhaps, but not, in general, as Justin seems to paint us.
 We were much better than that.  Unwittingly providing cover for some right
bastards, I don't doubt, but really just trying to - well - matter.

To go down the road Ted seems to be taking, I guess we're talking not about
Nazis, but the sort of thing a Nazism could doubtlessly harness.  Add to
Arendt's 'good family men', then, 'innocent unanchored youths in search of
meaning and status through a solidarity constructed on vicarious criteria'.

Cheers,
Rob.
----------
> From: Ted Winslow <winslow@xxxxxxxx>
> To: <pen-l@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [PEN-L:18056] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Anti-Eurocentrism:
IdealistDiversionfromAnti-r...
> Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 22:40:27 -0400
>
>JKSCHW wrote:
>>
>> << Much better to have neo-Nazis channeling their energies into drink,
>> soccer games and dance than into murdering members of visible minorities.
>>
>>
>> As someone who has seen a Brit football riot from a uncomfortably close
>> perspectives--if you are close enough to see it. you are too close--I
wonder
>> if there is that much of a difference. The football match is often as not
an
>> excuse to murder members of visible minorities. --jks
>
>I'm pretty sure you're right about this.  The kind of psychological
>explanation I'm elaborating includes a theory of group psychology that
>claims the underlying motivation is more likely to find direct conscious
>expression in thought and action when the individuals in question form
>themselves into a "mob" having the character of what Freud called a
>"psychological group", as in "lynch mobs".
>
>Ted
>--
>Ted Winslow                            E-MAIL: WINSLOW@xxxxxxxx
>Division of Social Science             VOICE: (416) 736-5054
>York University                        FAX: (416) 736-5615
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>