Re: Re: Notes on a talk I will give on Wed.

["Charles Brown" <CharlesB@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

>>> Rod Hay <rodhay@xxxxxxxxxx> 04/03/00 01:26PM >>>
Yes and no. Property rights in general are essential but specific property rights not so.

________

CB: Essential and definitional to capitalism is private property in the basic means of production.  So, I agree with you.

I think it is important to say PRIVATE property rights. Private property is not the only form of property or organizing control of ownership. There is public or social property. There will still be property in socialism in the sense of organized relationship of people to things.

_________


Capitalism is notorious for protecting the "property" of some but not that of others. There are few property rights in jobs. I could claim a property right on an idea, but not on my lungs. All sorts of air borne pollutants enter my lungs, but I can't not
charge the producers of those pollutants with trepassing.

_________

CB: Agree. Capitalism is notorious and defined by private property in the basic means of production.

And they even run a hoax on the issue you are talking about. Here in the U.S. the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution, says life, liberty and property cannot be taken without due process or just compensation. But personal property of regular people, or life , as with your lungs, is not given the protection the private property in basic means of production is. And the Constitution does not even theoretically apply to PRIVATE entities ripping off people, only to the government in relation to people So, it is a bit of a hoax.

CB

_______


So Friedman is in no contradiction when he argues against property rights in ideas, but maintains it in other spheres. The argument for supporters of property rights is not about whether property rights will exist. It is about What property rights will exist.

Rod

Charles Brown wrote:

> >>> Xxxx Xxxxx Xxxxxx <xxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 04/02/00 09:19PM >>>
> Michael Parelman wrote:
>
> > >Today, United States depends on the sale of goods protected >from
> > >competition by intellectual property rights.  Not surprisingly, >three of
> >
> > >the four richest people in this country are associated with one >of these
> >
> > >companies.  Intellectual property rights, however, are >monopolies that
> > >violate the principles of the free market.
> >
>
> michael, i thought intellectual property rights were central to the
> principles of the free market.  what makes capitalism capitalism is the
> recognition of property rights as inalienable individual rights, the notion
> of private possession, so to speak. Am i wrong?
>
> ________
>
> Hello Xxxx. I think you are right. But more specifically private property rights are central to the principles of the free market. "Intellectual property" rights are private property in specific types of commodities such as a design for making something ( patent), a symbol ( trademark) or intellectual product like a book ( copyright), I think.
>
> Charles
>
> _________
>
> i don't see how they
> constitute a monopoly in the free market or violate the principles of the
> free market. well, capitalism is a monopoly regime of property owners to
> begin with.  what is equally interesting is that monopoly seems to be
> intrinsic to capitalism, rather than accidental.
>
> there are capitalist regimes without intellectual property rights fully
> established or somewhat established, like those economies in the periphery
> or semi periphery of the world system (i.e.., Turkey). they are nonetheless
> still capitalist by virtue of their integration into the world capitalist
> system. The state often justifies monopolies on the grounds that they are
> necessary for achieving economics of scale  in order to privilege corporate
> interests, i.e, private sector monopoly or public sector monopoly.
>
> how does this differ in the US? In addition to the "formal freedom" market,
> is there a monopoly capitalism?
>
> > --
> > >Michael Perelman
> > >Economics Department
> > >California State University
> > >Chico, CA 95929
> >
> > >Tel. 530-898-5321
> > >E-Mail michael@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
> --
>
> Xxxx Xxxxx Xxxxxx
> PhD Student
> Department of Political Science
> SUNY at Albany
> Nelson A. Rockefeller College
> 135 Western Ave.; Milne 102
> Albany, NY 12222

--
Rod Hay
rodhay@xxxxxxxxxx
The History of Economic Thought Archive
http://socserv2.mcmaster.ca/~econ/ugcm/3ll3/index.html
Batoche Books
http://Batoche.co-ltd.net/
52 Eby Street South
Kitchener, Ontario
N2G 3L1
Canada