(Fwd) Interview with Cai Chongguo, editor of China Labour Bull

[phillp2@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

I know many of you get Sid's posts, but this one seems to be too
close to the recent thread on the WTO to ignore.

paul
Paul Phillips,
Economics,
University of Manitoba

------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
Date sent:      	Fri, 10 Dec 1999 14:50:03 -0800
To:             	(Recipient list suppressed)
From:           	Sid Shniad <shniad@xxxxxx>
Subject:        	Interview with Cai Chongguo, editor of China Labour Bulletin

>From Informations Ouvrières (Labor News)

Note: Following is an interview with Cai Chongguo, the editor of the
French edition of China Labour Bulletin, the voice of the independent
trade union movement in China. Cai was an organizer of independent
trade unions that arose during the mass uprising of May-June 1989 at
Tiananmen Square. He was forced into exile after the uprising was
violently repressed by the regime.
	China Labour Bulletin is published in Hong Kong by Chinese
railworker Han Dongfang, who was the founder of the Autonomous
Workers' Federation of Beijing. In his capacity as international
relations director of China Labour Bulletin, Cai represented Han
Dongfang at the September 1999 national convention of the AFL-
CIO. (Han was stripped of his Chinese citizenship and cannot leave
the country, as he would not be allowed to re-enter.)
	The interview below was conducted by French journalist Olivier
Doriane and was published in the November 22, 1999, issue of
Informations Ouvrières (Labor News), the publication of the Workers
Party of France.

I.O.: On November 15, 1999, high-ranking U.S. and Chinese officials
signed an agreement in Beijing that is meant to pave the way for China's
entry into the World Trade Organization. What can you tell us about this
agreement?

Cai Chongguo: I was shocked by the fact that nowhere in this agreement
is there any reference to workers' rights. Everyone in the world knows that
the Chinese government does not respect labor rights. These international
negotiations could have been seized to put pressure on the Chinese
government. The democratic countries could have insisted that China
ratify ILO Conventions 87 and 98, which uphold the right to independent
trade unions and collective bargaining.
	But the U.S. government did not do that. For its part, the Chinese
government, which has no legitimacy, accelerated its quest to join the
WTO for its own political needs. It hopes that membership in the WTO
will enhance its recognition and legitimacy the world over.
	I am fully in agreement with AFL-CIO President John Sweeney when
he stated recently that an agreement was reached with a government that
does not respect workers' rights. All this just shows that the WTO is not
an organization that respects the principles of democracy. The WTO is
not in the least concerned about such fundamental questions as labor
rights, human rights, and environmental protections.
	The WTO's decisions affect the lives of hundreds of millions of people
across the globe, and yet these decisions are made by a handful of people
behind closed doors. The WTO is not interested in the opinions and views
of the true representatives of the peoples of the world.

I.O.: Top government officials in Beijing have hailed this new agreement.
China Daily, in fact, devoted numerous pages to explain how it will
benefit the Chinese people. Bill Clinton also declared that it was a good
agreement. What is the significance of this agreement from the standpoint
of those who are fighting to build independent trade unions in China?

Cai Chongguo: I am deeply concerned about the impact of this accord on
the Chinese workers and peasants. I am concerned about the situation that
faces China's agriculture and important sectors of its industry. In relation
to agriculture, U.S. products are 30 percent cheaper than Chinese
products for such crops as corn and wheat, for example.
	The WTO agreement means that China's agricultural market will be
opened wide to U.S. corporations. Under these conditions, the very lives
of millions of Chinese peasants are at risk. I fear this will only provoke a
new mass exodus of peasants from their lands. Already, more than 100
million peasants have had to abandon their farmlands, only to be thrust
into even even more deplorable situations either in the Special Economic
Zones or in the outskirts of the large cities, where they have no social
safety net of any kind, no jobs, no housing.
	The U.S.-China agreement has a specific section on the auto industry.
It is well known that over the last number of years, the French government
- but not only they - have invested in China. Over the past 20 years, the
country has had a difficult time trying to digest, so to speak, all the new
technologies. I fear that this process will be broken with the mass
importation -- now made possible by this new accord -- of U.S. and
Western automobiles. The auto industry in China, which is just in the
process of modernization, is threatened with destruction.
	Indeed, we are very concerned. We fear that unemployment will soar
anew. With this new agreement, moreover, the state-run enterprises will
be more quickly abandoned. Plant closures will increase and
unemployment will rise.

I.O.: What conclusions do you draw from this?

Cai Chongguo: I think this new accord between the Chinese and U.S.
governments makes the struggle to build independent trade unions in
China an even more urgent and immediate task. Even the Chinese
government has had to acknowledge that unemployment will rise
significantly. Of course, they say this is a necessary price that must be
paid to be a full participant in the global economy. They call it an
inevitable ?sacrifice.?
	Once again, the Chinese authorities are portraying the Chinese
workers as an obstacle to the opening of China's market. The Chinese
authorities are ready to sacrifice the rights and very interests of the
Chinese workers for the sake of this agreement. We cannot accept this.
	More than ever, it is necessary for the Chinese workers to have
independent organizations with which to defend themselves. We have
experienced 20 years of so-called reforms, all aimed at opening up
progressively China's economy. This experience has demonstrated that
such reforms, carried out as they are without democracy and without
independent trade unions, only result in the victimization of the large
majority of the workers.
	The standard of living has dropped. Working conditions have
deteriorated. And only a small minority of people have benefited. Before
we didn't know any of this would happen. We were under the illusion that
with the opening of the Chinese economy and these ?reforms,? the Chinese
economy would progress. We thought that with this opening the foreign
corporations would introduce scientific methods of production and
rational systems of administration. We hoped these market reforms would
modernize China.
	But we have lived through 20 years of economic reforms. For the
great majority of the population, the conditions of life and work are far
worse now than before. The standard of living of the workers and
peasants has not increased. The state enterprises were not modernized. On
the contrary, they are witnessing today an unprecedented crisis.
Unemployment mounts by the day. It is no longer possible today to harbor
any such illusions in these market reforms and agreements.
	With these reforms, we saw the introduction of the Special Economic
Zones. These were presented as China's ?window to the world.? They were
meant to open our country wide to modern society. But the reality of these
Special Economic Zones is what we have described month after month in
our China Labour Bulletin: sweatshops, over-exploitation, untold misery.
	There are some, in fact there are many, new modern industries, new
office buildings, and new luxury hotels. But this is far outweighed by the
massive uprooting of millions upon millions of peasants from their farms -
- peasants who are forced to migrate to the Special Economic Zones and
to the cities, where they are plunged into conditions of undescribable
squalor. Behind the facade of modernization are the millions upon millions
of workers who toil with no safety protections, no rights, and meager pay.
	Many of you know about some of the fires in the sweatshops of the
Special Economic Zones. Hundreds of women workers were killed, unable
to escape for lack of safety codes and regulations. These are the
abominable conditions of exploitation that are being foisted upon us by
the multinational corporations through their ?free trade? agreements.
	So to conclude, I would say the following: It is not the opening of
China's market under any conditions that will bring something beneficial
to China. What matters, what can offer a future of hope and dignity, is
our struggle -- that is, the struggle of the workers and peasants of China,
supported by the labor movement worldwide. And for that we need
independent trade unions.