[PEN-L:9702] Re: Re: Bill McKibben

["Rod Hay" <rodhay@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Lou
On the basis of your post I would be unwilling to declare you a certified
"idiot". Insufficient evidence!

I think that these struggles should be supported although critically. And I
certainly think that attempts to return to long forgotten modes of
production are doomed.

I don't know what "do artifacts have politics" means. Is this the old
neutrality of technology debate dressed up in new clothes?

Rod



----Original Message Follows----
From: "frances bolton" <fbolton@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>




>Rod Hay wrote:
>>
>>Other than calling each other idiots, I can't figure out what this debate
is
>>about.
>
Lou writes:

>It is about the relevance of Marxism to precapitalist societies>

There is also the question of whether, as Langdon Winner put it, artifacts
have politics. Unfortunately Lou was unwilling to have that conversation.
Too bad, it's something we've fruitfully discussed in the past. I thought
then, and I continue to think, that Lou would  benefit from reading some
critics of technology who are more sophisticated than the poppish Mr.
Mander.

Frances



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