[PEN-L:9600] Re: Re: Re: Re: Let's slow down here

[Ken Hanly <khanly@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

You seem to equate capitalist unions with business unionism. While this may be the
prevalent type of unionism in the United States, many unions in other countries and
perhaps in the US as well have a much broader view of their role. Even within
business unionism there has been concern with the right to organise, with minimum
wage laws, worker safety etc. all progressive and going beyond narrow member
interests, whether capitalist or not. However, many unions have gone beyond this to
support
other reforms within capitalism. Old age pensions in Canada for example. Universal
medicare services. At least some capitalist unions have supported political parties
that pressed for reforms within capitalism that would benefit the working class,
the elderly, and the poor far beyond their own membership.
    By the way are the workers in enterprises doing contract work for Disney in
China unionised? How exactly do these unions help to promote socialism in these
enterprises?
   Cheers, Ken Hanly

Henry C.K. Liu wrote:

> The differences are fiundamental.
>
> Ideologically, capitalist unions aim at preserving capitalism against the
> emrgence of socialism while socialist unions aim at destroying capitalisnm to
> build toward socialism.
>
> Capitalist unions accept competition and stratification as just and necessary
> within the capitalist philosophy while socialist unions promote cooperation and
> equality.
>
> Capitalist unions derive from their guild historical origin a natural tendency
> to stratify workers through exclusivity.  Their strategy is based on narrow
> trade interests and they support or are willing to accept widening income
> disparity among workers as long as their own member receive high pay and
> benefits.  This narrow interest has lead them into socially reactionary
> positions.
>
> Socialist unions understand that it is important to prevent the emergence of a
> new class of elite workers and that competitive adversary postures are not
> acceptable in a socialist setting where cooperation and equality should be the
> norms of behavior.  This is particularly crucial in China where 80% (over one
> billion) of the population are still farming peasants and only 12% are
> industrial workers, of which less than 10 million worked for Western FDI
> companies.
>
> The president of the All-China Federation of Trade Unions is also a member of
> the Standing Committee of the Political Bureau of the Communist Party of China
> (CPC) Central Committee.
>
> All the attempts to start illegal capitalist unions have been supported by
> Western anti-China forces with special political agneda and destabilization
> objectives.  The two of three of these self-styled "activiists" have been
> jailed for receiving foreign funds to carry out anti-China activities on
> Chinese soil. These inviduals have nothing to do with labor issues in China.
>
> Good to hear from you, Doug,
>
> Henry
>
> Doug Henwood wrote:
>
> > Henry C.K. Liu wrote:
> >
> > >This after I repeated pointed out the China opposed capitalist unions, not
> > >socialist unions.
> >
> > What's the difference?
> >
> > Doug