[PEN-L:8802] Re: RE: Divisions on the left

[Michael Perelman <michael@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

"Max B. Sawicky" wrote:

> There are two different arguments tangled up here.
>
> The trivial one, pertaining to flames on PEN-L
> and LBO, has nothing to do with the Balkans.  I have had much
> rougher exchanges with Henwood on the latter, and hardly any
> (on the Balkans) with those folks saying terrible things about
> me and Brad (and many who took issue with them on LBO).  By
>  the same token, Brad D was opposed to the NATO policy
> and had equally contentious exchanges.

Max, I thought we were winding this down.  We have had enough of this debate
about debates.

> Today the split between communists and social-dems is not a split in the
> left, because there is no
> communist left to hold a candle to.  On PEN-L and LBO, near as I
> can tell, no two of our local leninists belong to the same
> organization.  Some movement.

Max, you are right.  There are few of us.  We have very few venues in which to
meet.  Pen-l and (I really should not speak for LBO) are cherished spots for
that reason.

> U.S. communists, most of whom you could stuff into a phone
> booth, look hopefully to the real left breaking their way
> out of disgust with Clintonism.  The likelihood of this
> obviously spawns a lot of arguments on PEN-L which I won't
> pursue right now, except to say that the Perelman/Proyect
> formulation on PEN-L reflects this fantasy.  Hope that is
> not out of bounds.
>

yes,  it is out of bounds!  First of all, you presume to have access to my
fantasies.  I don't expect in the near future that mere disgust with Clinton
will create a groundswell among the left.  however, when objective conditions
change, a well thought out political understanding will be crucial for the left
to develop.


> I can't say I don't enjoy reasonably civil exchanges

exactly! I want to keep the exchanges reasonably civil.


> Periodic scuffles
> with smart people on the further left can be helpful in
> this endeavor, so I have never minded their participation
> on that account.

at this point, I do want the scuffles to stop.  I wrote to you about that last
night.

> I do think the balance has shifted too
> much towards the extreme; I attribute it to the atmosphere
> of intimidation and spam that I discussed last week.

Max, you are bright and clever, but I do not want to the use your mental
dexterity to police what you think is an extreme lefttish tilt to the list.

> Yes, talk drives out some good talk, though some of the threads
> in the past ten days have been pretty good.

yes, and your less rambunctious behavior helped the list to improve.  now you
start again.  You must stop!
--
Michael Perelman
Economics Department
California State University
Chico, CA 95929

Tel. 530-898-5321
E-Mail michael@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx