[PEN-L:8342] Re: Re: racism

["Charles Brown" <CharlesB@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

>>> Rob Schaap <carob@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 06/25/99 12:45PM >>>
G'day Chas,

Well, at least we've taken to agreeing elsewhere (mebbe 'coz I paraphrased
Lenin, eh?).

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Charles: Yea, like JK Galbraith

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>The irony comes in with the post-Reagan ,liberal-" lefts" who turn the new
gravity of the charge of racism into a basis for suppressing most charges of
racism. In effect they say, "I am so respectful of the importance of the
problem of racism that I think to say someone or action is racist is a very
serious charge, so you , Black person or other person of color, are
irresponsible in making the charge so much." In practice, including a lot on
these "left" lists, the main thing that happens is criticism of misuse of
the serious charge of racism, and almost no criticism of racism.

But do you really think that's what's happening here on pen-l, Chas?  We all
agree the charge of racism is a serious charge.  And that does mean it
should not be lightly levelled.

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Charles: What I "agree" on first is that RACISM is a serious problem. The seriousness of charges of racism are derivative of that fundamental fact. What I find is that most of the people who declare the charge of racism is serious rarely find any racism to charge. They seem to think racism is like incest: serious but rare.

The first focus should be on whether there is racism. As to whether levelling charges of it "lightly" is a problem depends on how widespread the racism is. If it is everywhere, it would be accurate to level the charge of it frequently, if that is what you mean by "lightly".

Think of it this way. There would be nothing wrong with "lightly" leveling the charge of "capitalism" or "bourgeoisism" just about anywhere in the world today , including on "left" mailists. So, frequently saying that would be appropriate.

Racism is pervasive , so one would expect that the charge could appropriately made frequently.

The charge of racist is no more heavy than the charge of bourgeois.

You have shifted the focus from determining what is racist to, guarding against false charges, a secondary and much lesser problem. White people being falsely accused of racism is not nearly the problem that white people conducting themselves in a racist way is.

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 I am, perhaps, bound to understand racism
differently from you (I experience it very differently, obviously, so it's
worth taking the possibility into account) - but are we being racist here by
rejecting charges that it has happened here of late?  At the moment. I don't
think it has happened here, you see.

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Charles: Well , that's it in a nutshell , isn't it ?  Of course you experience racism differently than I do: you don't experience it. That's why I notice it more than you do.

The most recent incidents have been on a couple of lists.  Seemingly the people of color are in agreement , and the only ones disagreeing are white.

Maybe it will help you to think of it historically. Who do you think "discovered" racism as a problem in general in history , white people or people of color ? Do you think "racism" would be a serious charge today if it had been left up to white people over the last 300 years ?

Do you really think that white people have become today the equals of people of color in detecting racism ?



>The white "left"-racists have decided that they understand the theory of
racism and the facts of racism better than leftists of color.

Who here is a white 'left' racist, and why?

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Charles: Check out recent exchanges with Henry Liu. See if you can detect some indications of racism.

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Rob:
 Let's get specific and sort
this thing now (sorry to Michael the moderator, but a quick honest wash-up
might clarify things once and for all - which would suit this lister, at
least).  We either have to learn where we're going wrong or we gotta move
on, eh?  Well, I do, anyway.

Charles: There is no moderation issue here.

 Getting specific would make it more personal and might make it a moderation issue.


CB