[PEN-L:3336] Re: Foreign Trade-Industrial Revolution

["Charles Brown" <CharlesB@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Here's a response from Andre Gunder Frank to Ricardo's comments.

Charles Brown

___________

thanks for the forward
AGF 'answer' for re-forward/ing:
maybe you are missing something since
the index of the book says

"income: per capita/distribution, 173-74,266,304-9,312-13,315,317.
See also wages"

I may not be fazed at all by the appatrent low income/high wage
contradiction, but it is specificaly discussed and i hope resolved in the
book.it helpt to read and know what one is talking about before doing so.

respecfully submitted
agf

 On Sat,
13 Feb 1999, Charles Brown wrote:

> Date: Sat, 13 Feb 1999 16:55:14 -0500
> From: Charles Brown <CharlesB@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: agfrank@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Forward
>
> Ricardo Duchesne wrote:
>
> > The supply of cheap capital from the colonial trade was not the only
> > crucial  factor giving Europe (E) a chance to overcome its marginal
> > position in the world economy. Another one was E's high wages relative to
> > Asia's low wages. E's comparative wage-costs were such
> > that they could not compete in the world economy (as Asia was "much
> > more productive with much lower wage costs"), so E was motivated
> > to introduce labor-reducing machinery. A decision which Europeans
> > did not make because they were more "rational" or advanced but
> > because they had different relative factor (capital/labor) prices.
> > That is, for Frank, the "real explanation" for E's industrialization
> > does not lie in any "internal" superiority but in E's differential
> > comparative costs *within* the world economy.
> >
>
>     I   have found the postings on Frank's book fascinating. I
> haven't myself yet had time to do more than browse a bit of Frank's
> book and check  a reference or two, but the I am saving the various
> comments on Frank's book for later restudy. Meanwhile, I would like
> to raise one point.
>
>      It would seem  that Frank's logic ignores the obvious question:
> why, if Asia really was  wealthier per capita than Europe, were the
> wages so much lower in Asia? I was checking into the 1700 figures
> cited by Frank, and his reference to Braudel. These figures, if I
> recall right,  claim that per capita England was a bit less wealthy
> than France, which in turn was somewhat under India. However, in
> checking the reference for these figures to Braudel given by Frank,
> it turns out that Braudel also claims that, around 1700,  wages in
> France, although they were substantially less than those in England,
> were *six times* higher than those in India at this time. Frank
> recognizes lower wages in India, and apparently cites the same
> reference for this as used by Braudel, but doesn't seem to cite *how
> much* lower they were (maybe I missed it), and tries --  rather
> feebly, it seems to me -- to explain away most of the significance of
> this.
>
>       So what's the significance of all this? Frank's argument at
> base seems to treat the wage difference as not an internal
> factor, but simply a question of "comparative cost" in the world
> market. But the more obvious issue is: if the wages are so much lower
> in a country that is supposedly just as wealthy, if not more so, as
> the country with higher wages, then doesn't this strongly suggest
> that there may be internal differences in the class relations in
> these countries?
>
> 	It seems, in their struggle against "stage-ism", "Eurocentrism",
> etc. , various theorists have given up any serious consideration of
>  of the internal factors.  Instead there is recourse in Frank's book
> to the crudest factor of all--just compare  societies by wealth per
> capita. (By the way, wouldn't these be very speculative figures
> with respect to these economies of centuries ago? How does one get
> such a figure? I really am curious about this. My guess is that
> various calculations must depend on first making assumptions about
> the economy of the country, and then extrapolating very, very partial
> data to the whole country.) The fact that  the wealthier society may
> have incredibly lower  wages doesn't seem to faze these theorists at
> all.
>
> --Joseph Green
>
>
>


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                   ANDRE GUNDER FRANK
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