[PEN-L:1495] Re: Sexual politics of Yiddish and Hebrew (Re: RE: The full dimensions of the Holocaust)

["Frances Bolton (PHI)" <fbolton@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Oh, sure. One couldn't say hamburger and french fries in ancient hebrew.
But you can say it in modern (hamboorgeria ee cheeps is the
transliteration.)

frances,
who just displayed half of her hebrew. I can also say "I drink coffee" in
Hebrew, but I'll save that for another day.



On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, Rosser Jr, John Barkley wrote:

>      But then the Hebrew of Israel is a synthetic
> language that is not that of the ancients.  One of its
> more striking features is a significant Slavic
> influence grammatically and in other ways.  Of course
> there is a Hebrew influence on Russian, most notably in
> the presence of certain letters in the alphabet.
>      The history and nature of Yiddish is yet another
> ball game entirely.
> Barkley Rosser
> On Thu, 3 Sep 1998 10:21:19 -0400 (EDT) "Frances Bolton
> (PHI)" <fbolton@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > Max,
> >
> > I'm going to look into this later, but I definitely recall older,
> > religious Jews going to the gas chambers and young Zionists going to
> > Palestine. At least part of the thing about creating a Jewish state ws
> > creating a New Jew. The kibbibutzim were founded on socialist principles,
> > and more importantly, Hebrew, rather than Yiddidish, was adopted as the
> > official language. Yiddish was the mamaloshen, associated with the shetl
> > and the weak Jew who lived  at the mercy of the goyim. It's a language, as
> > Leo Rosten puts it, of insults and complaints. Hebrew was the language of
> > the warrior Jew, the Bible, the sign of Jews chosen-ness. Way more butch.
> > For people interested in the sexual politics of Hebrew and Yiddish, check
> > out Naomi Seidman's scholarship. Unfortunately, I don't have any titles,
> > she told me this stuff.
> >
> > Frances
> >
> > On Thu, 3 Sep 1998, Max Sawicky wrote:
> >
> > > > . . .
> > > >that there are some references--e.g. certain Zionist leaders
> > > >collaborating with Nazis to get young and religious Jews to Palestine and
> > > leave older and more secular Jews to the gas chambers . . . >>
> > >
> > > Although I've read some about nazi-zionist
> > > transactions, this is the first I've heard
> > > of age/religiousness dimensions.  I'd
> > > appreciate any references you might be
> > > aware of.
> > >
> > > The age thing is consistent with an interest
> > > in nation-building, but the religion aspect
> > > seems less so.  My understanding is that the
> > > zionist movement was founded and largely led
> > > by secularists, and mostly opposed before
> > > WWII by orthodox Jews.
> > >
> > > MBS
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> --
> Rosser Jr, John Barkley
> rosserjb@xxxxxxx
>
>