[PEN-L:1363] Re: Nazis

["James Michael Craven" <cravjm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On 31 Aug 98 at 17:38, Louis Proyect wrote:

> Apropos of Barkley Rosser's comments on Russian Swastikas and Jim Craven's
> (on PEN-L only) citation from "Trading With The Enemy: An Expose of the
> Nazi-American Money Plot 1933-1949," by Charles Higham, I should mention
> that I have been in a month-long battle with a "leftist" holocaust denial
> on the alt.politics.socialism.trotsky newsgroup. Although I have been
> acquitting myself decently there, I was pleased when people from the Nizkor
> site showed up to join the battle. This is the reaction of the holocaust
> denier to their arrival:
> ---
> Not even the tiniest doubt is permitted in a newsgroup generally hostile to
> the notion of debate of the gas chamber controversy, although usually
> critical of Zionism. So along come the thought police to recycle their
> rebuttals of revisionist claims. I defend their right to do so. Who funds
> the Nizkor site to search the WWW day in day out for any crumbs of dissent
> that seeps into into the public domain?
>
> For those unconvinced of the irrefutable veracity of the Nizkor site,
> please access:
>
> http://www.abbc.com/aaargh/
>
> Regards
>
> Neil
>
>
> Louis Proyect
> (http://www.panix.com/~lnp3/marxism.html)
>
Louis,

For your lists also. a "leftist" holocaust denier is an oxymoron;
there is simply no such thing. No true leftist could ever deny that
the Holocaust against Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals, Slavic Peoples and
others in Conquered Territories, POWs etc occurred.

There are some populaists who appear anti-capitalist and nominally
appear "leftist"--as did the Brownshits or S.A. of the Nazis--who are
anti-Semites, holocaust deniers etc. They are "leftists" only on the
most superficial levels.

There are some leftists, and I am one of them, who believe that "The
Holocaust" has been cynically and abusively used/misused to promote
Zionism or to deflect any criticisms of Israel, but they would also
argue, as do I, that for example speaking only of the Jewish victims
of the Holocaust, is a desecration of the Jewish as well as
non-Jewish victims of the Holocaust (after-all, so many Jews were
slaughtered because of articifial and deadly divisions between Jews
and non-Jews--and their natural allies--who could have formed effective
united fronts against fascism had both Jews and non-Jews not allowed
historical divisions and forms of mistrust to be used and
manipulated) employed for cynical and manipulative purposes. There
are some leftists who also argue, as do I, that Zionism is to real
Judaism what the Crusades were to real Christianity or what the
Taliband or House of Saud are to real Islam.

But no true "leftist" can ever promote racism, sexism, anti-Semitism,
national chauvinism, Holocaust denials, Zionism,
ultra-sectarian/bigoted Christianity or some other religion,
imperialism, fascism etc etc.

Jim Craven

 James Craven
 Dept. of Economics,Clark College
 1800 E. McLoughlin Blvd. Vancouver, WA. 98663
 jcraven@xxxxxxxxx; Tel: (360) 992-2283 Fax: 992-2863
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