[PEN-L:769] Re: Re: Re: Shotguns and machetes

[boddhisatva <kbevans@xxxxxxxxx>]

		C. Sinha,


	I don't think physics is cultural.  Hydro-power just does more work
- it has more physical capacity - than do river fish.  I'm not saying that
simply justifies throwing away river fish populations, not by a long shot,
but the comparison C. Proyect made was false.


	You ask: "How can you separate forces of production from the
relations of production?"  That is what was once known as the 64,000 dollar
question.  It's not easy, certainly, but I don't think everything has been
tried.  My approach has always been a more syndicalist one - for which I've
been labeled a capitalist stooge on Marxist lists.  My focus is on capital
and credit.  I see capitalism as a monopoly on capital and access to credit.


	I believe the market is basically a democratic structure. I reject
the idea that there is a real, rational, undeformed labor market that
makes the the divisions of labor necessarily into class divisions.  What
makes class divisions is a worker's relationship with the property
relations of the ruling class.  Furthermore, there is clearly a difference
between selling goods and selling people.  A future order which included
the idea of economic citizenship - real ownership rights based on
citizenship and/or belonging to a collective firm - would necessarily
undermine the tendency for *wealth* to accumulate, since a large measure
of wealth would be thereby granted at the outset. I'm fairly indifferent
to disparities in income above a certain base level.  We know that the
disparity in wealth dwarfs the disparity in income.


	The disparity in wealth also means that the owning class has
access to capital - and far more importantly, credit - that gives it
tremendous power.  A democratization of the process of granting credit
would undermine even that advantage that higher *income* earners would
have in this future system.




	peace