[PEN-L:380] Re: Apology

["James Michael Craven" <cravjm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Response: Part of the problem is figuring out what is authentic vs
synthetic culture in the Indian World--so much is a caricature of the
real thing and so much of what is authentic is passed down through
stories (allegories) and oral history. Next, there is the problem
that some traditions are "traditions" because they work or address
serious threats and ensure the survival of the Nation (like Kosher
Diet among Jews) and other "traditions" are "traditions" only because
the will and force to end them have not been developed (like Slavery
in some parts of the world).

Just because some is passed off as "Indian Culture" doesn't make it
"pure", legitimate or even desirable in terms of Indians themselves; just
because something is "non-Indian" doesn't make it evil or an
instrument of genocide. There are some aspects and ideas passed off
as "Indian" that are backward, brutal and dysfunctional for Indians
and non-Indians alike. there are practices, forms of bigotry, forms
of macho posturing, treatment of women  etc in Indian Country that
are as backward and destructive as anything I have seen in the
non-Indian World.

On the other hand, Indian Communities are dying and the most success
in reversing certain genocidal trends has been associated with
programs that seek to return to certain traditional practices and
traditional diets. At theTribunal we heard case after case of Indians
who were raised on and forced off traditional diets replaced with
"Resdiential/Boarding School" diets (heavy in starches,
carbohydrates, low in proteins etc) that led to a whole host of
medicial conditions common in Indian Country today (obesity,
diabetes, renal failure, TB, anemia, rickets, inflants born at low
birth weight etc) So the use of the Whale Hunt as an instrument to
focus on the need to return to traditional diets, as an instrument to
train the young in traditional ceremonies/rituals/practices, as an
instrument to force attention on the routine and arrogant abrogation
of Treaties, as an instrument to focus on the imperative for national
sovereignty and self-determination, as an instrument to focus on the
hypocrisy of non-Indian reactionaries raping the earth for profit
while professing such concern about whales, as an instrument for
taking the youth away from drugs and alcohol and dysfunctional
behaviors, as an instrument for building national unity and cohesion,
as an instrument for teaching respect for Elders and their knowledge
of important things and as an instrument of examining what is
authentic and what is synthetic in what is understood to be "culture"
suggests potential benefits far outweighing any possible costs.

For the Inuit, Whaling as an instrument to return to traditional
diets and as an instrument  for all of the above-mentioned purposes
as well, is even more critical because of their relative isolation,
almost total dependence on outside sources of foods and amenities (at
unconscionable prices) and more homogeneous gene pool more in harmony
with traditional diets and increasingly threatened by foreign diets
for which Inuit are genetically ill-suited and from which they are
increasingly suffering diet-related illnesses.

But the fact is that all forms of life feed on other forms of life.
The question is the purpose, extent and wise-use of any resource. So
Indians have a problem with non-Indian developers, fishing and
hunting interests and lobbys (with stuffed deer heads and caught fish
on the walls of their offices) who are some of the forces behind the
likes of Metcalf et al, all of a sudden so concerned about whales and
the purported cruelty behaing whaling practices. Then there are some
of the elements behind PETA or ALF or Greenpeace who would never take
up the cause of "liberating" or the "sanctity" of lab rats but yet
profess (selective) concern for those forms of life that are "cute"
(baby seals, whales, chimps, dogs, cats etc--but appratently not
Indians)) under the banner of concern for all animals in general
(Some have gone so far as threaten humans with death in the name of
liberating lab animals).

So many Indians see these contradicitions and forms of naked
hypocrisy and see them as simply newer forms of the same old
shit--slander, desecration, violation of Indian ways and cultures as
a means for facilitating the progressive extermination of those
cultures and assimilation of the few Indians who might remain.

Jim Craven






On 29 Jul 98 at 16:31, Rosser Jr, John Barkley wrote:

>      Well, I lied.  I said I wouldn't post on this anymore,
> but...  a few points:
>      1)  To the extent it was directed at me, I accept
> Jim's apology.  I deeply respect his position and support
> what he has been and is doing.  I almost did not make my
> original post out of trepidation of his reaction.  But,
> then, if you can't take strong arguments from someone you
> respect, you might as well hang it up.
>      2)  I thank Lou P. for posting the stuff on the Makah
> practices.  Based on that I have no problem with what they
> are doing, although I am a bit skeptical about the claim
> that they need whale meat in their diet for health reasons.
>      3)  I had originally raised the issue with regard to
> the Inuit and the bowhead, not the Makah and the gray
> whale.  The difference between the two is significant.  The
> Makah are hunting a non-endangered species with over 22,000
> around, using a clearly sustainable plan.  The Inuit are
> hunting an endangered species, although if they stick to
> only one every two years that is probably not going to be
> fatal.  But, I find it disturbing that they are claiming
> that there are more than do ecologists (700 vs 500).
>      4)  I certainly am concerned about any group that is
> "endangered."  I support their efforts to maintain or
> revive their endangered cultural practices.  And we might
> note that in the case of whaling we are talking about a
> revival, not a preservation of an ongoing practice.
>      5)  Here let me possibly make Jim run for his prozac
> again, but I do think that when traditional cultural
> practices are revived, those doing so should take care to
> understand how the world has changed.  Thus, it is tragic
> that Euro-American capitalism has wiped out many cultures
> and species and has endangered many others.  Tribes seeking
> to revive an old practice do need to think about the new
> circumstances.  It would appear that the Makah have done so
> in their planned whaling activities.  It is less clear that
> the Inuit have done so.  One can have a right to do
> something and choose not to do it.
>      I can certainly imagine cultural practices of various
> traditional peoples that have disappeared that few would
> support being revived, although fortunately I do not see
> the more egregious of such being proposed by anybody.  But,
> I would warn that the arguments that have been given about
> cultural survival could be made in defense of some really
> indefensible things.  Hopefully this will not come to pass.
>      6) In the meantime, Jim is correct.  The shoe is
> clearly on the foot of the dominant society/culture to
> respect and support the survival of minority cultures now.
> Barkley Rosser
> On Tue, 28 Jul 1998 17:53:22 PST8PDT James Michael Craven
> <cravjm@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> > To All:
> >
> > I haven't been on pen-l for awhile and then what do I do, come on
> > with some intemperate language. To Barkley Rosser et al my words were
> > not directed at you personally as I am familiar with your work which
> > is very progressive and needed; my intemperate words were directed at concepts.
> >
> > Please understand that for people on the brink of extinction, not
> > even sure of even how much of  what is left of the culture is even
> > authentic, saying "besides cultural issues, what other reason could
> > there be for hunting whales...that alone is enough; but indeed there
> > is more.
> >
> > We see the imperialist systems that have built their empires and
> > wealth on plunder of the environment and people now saying to the
> > poor countries "Think Green and industrialize carefully and take care
> > of Mother Earth; we see the Nations who have raped the oceans and have
> > brought certain whales to the brink of extinction now sanctimoniously
> > talking to Indian Nations who have whaled for thousands of years
> > (Nations suffering horrible diseases as a result of being forced on to
> > non-traditional diets for which they are not culturally or
> > genetically suited) that taking a few whales threatens the species;
> > We see rich nations, who have violated and abrogated every treaty all
> > of a sudden so concerned about adherence to international treaties
> > that Indian nations were given no consultation on or even invited to
> > sign--as the sovereign nations they are as guaranteed by those
> > treaties with the rich nations that have been summarily abrogated;
> >
> > But again, I should temper some of my language and anger as I am sure
> > all who raise their points of view feel equally passionate and often
> > their blood boils with some of my positions.
> >
> > Jim Craven
> >
> >  James Craven
> >  Dept. of Economics,Clark College
> >  1800 E. McLoughlin Blvd. Vancouver, WA. 98663
> >  jcraven@xxxxxxxxx; Tel: (360) 992-2283 Fax: 992-2863
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > "Hitler's concept of concentration camps as well as the practicality
> > of genocide owed much, so he claimed, to his studies of English and
> > United States history. He admired the camps for Boer prisoners in
> > South Africa and for the Indians in the Wild West; and often praised
> > to his inner circle the efficiency of America's extermination--by
> > starvation and uneven combat--of the 'Red Savages' who could not be
> > tamed by captivity." ("Adolf Hitler" by John Toland, p. 702)
> >
> > "Set the blood-quantum at one-quarter, hold to it as a rigid
> > definition of Indians, let intermarriage proceed...and eventually
> > Indians will be defined out of existence. When that happens,the
> > federal government will finally be freed from its persistent
> > Indian problem." (Patricia Nelson Limerick, "The Legacy of
> > Conquest: The Unbroken Past of the American West" p338)
> >
> > *My Employer  has no association with My Private and Protected Opinion*
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
>
> --
> Rosser Jr, John Barkley
> rosserjb@xxxxxxx
>
>

 James Craven
 Dept. of Economics,Clark College
 1800 E. McLoughlin Blvd. Vancouver, WA. 98663
 jcraven@xxxxxxxxx; Tel: (360) 992-2283 Fax: 992-2863
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Hitler's concept of concentration camps as well as the practicality
of genocide owed much, so he claimed, to his studies of English and
United States history. He admired the camps for Boer prisoners in
South Africa and for the Indians in the Wild West; and often praised
to his inner circle the efficiency of America's extermination--by
starvation and uneven combat--of the 'Red Savages' who could not be
tamed by captivity." ("Adolf Hitler" by John Toland, p. 702)

"Set the blood-quantum at one-quarter, hold to it as a rigid
definition of Indians, let intermarriage proceed...and eventually
Indians will be defined out of existence. When that happens,the
federal government will finally be freed from its persistent
Indian problem." (Patricia Nelson Limerick, "The Legacy of
Conquest: The Unbroken Past of the American West" p338)

*My Employer  has no association with My Private and Protected Opinion*
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------