[PEN-L:11158] Re: shun him!

["Karl Carlile" <joseph@xxxxxxxxx>]

KARL: Who is most? We dont know that. Where is the democracy and
openess. This expulsion was carried out by a small cabal wo desire to
control the list for themsleves. Just imagine what these people would
be like if they had state power. Thei nastiness might make Stalin
shudder. I have a good idea who some of these people are. THey are
hiding at them moment. Perhaps they will crawl out from under the
rock and squeak.




-------------------------------------------------
On  6 Jul 97 at 22:28, blairs@xxxxxxx wrote:

>Shunning is better than cutting someone out of the list, but it takes
>a high degree of agreement and self-discipline among listers.
>
>I sometimes despair at the little room that is often allowed for
>(what I think are) ideas worth hearing, or if not worth hearing, at
>least better heard than held secretly. However, Karl's comments were
>sexist in a way that I don't think most of us would tolerate in a
>face-to-face conversation, or at any public event we had any
>responsibility for.
>
>I say thank you Michael P. for kicking him out. This is not
>censorship. It is our right to a democratic atmosphere for
>discussions, and that requires prompt action against the kind of
>blatant and aggressive sexism I read in Karl's first couple of
>messages (I am assuming the rest were more of the same, because I
>didn't read through them).
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>Bill Burgess  (burgess@xxxxxxxxxxx)


Most folks who've expressed opinions have supported Michael's decision
to kick Karl off the list. I think Bill above has articulated
something like my thoughts: PEN-L is a commons regime and it may
sometimes require defense against those who would despoil it.

Michael: I think you do a great job of keeping PEN-L healthy. In my
opinion it has just about the highest signal to noise ratio of any
email list I'm aware of, even though I have disagreements about all
sorts of things with many people on the list and can't always read
everything I want for lack of time. Thanks!




_________________________________________________

Blair Sandler
blairs@xxxxxxx

 "They say that it's never too late,
 but you know you don't get any younger.
 Well I better learn how to
 starve the emptiness and feed the hunger.

   -- Indigo Girls

_________________________________________________








                          Yours etc.,
                                     Karl