[PEN-L:1972] Re: Internet mailing lists: what are they?

[glevy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]

Louis N Proyect wrote:

> Doesn't this describe PEN-L to a tee?
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No.
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Doesn't this describe Kliman and   Levy's understanding of what a mailing
list should be?
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No.
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>This was the   character of the Marxism list before it was hijacked by
>activists, workers and unruly undergraduates. This is what rankles
>many of the academics who have left the list.
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To so-called activists on the marxism list often display an astonishing
lack of political experience and understanding. It is *very* hard for me,
indeed, to believe that most of the list members who tout activism have
any major political experiences *or* have *any* understanding of Marxism.
The hostility to "academics" is just *prejudice* based on a
misunderstanding of the *actual* conditions that most academics work
under. I will not expand upon this point here since I have already done
so at length on the marxism list over the months (see marxism archives for
"College Professors and the Working Class"). What "rankles" many who have
left the marxism list -- including many experienced activists and
intellectuals/activists -- includes:

(1) the *constant* flow of ad hominum attacks;

(2) the *purposeful* distortion of the positions of others (including
    flagrant *lies*);

(3) *daily* does of offensive sexist and homophobic language;

(4) "spam";

(5) the reduction of Marxism into simplistic and child-like *dogmas*;

(6) the *vicious* attack on "outsiders" (e.g. "SJ);

(7) extreme and compulsive *obnoxiousness* (a la Howard Stern);

(8) the *extreme pretentiousness* of some "activists";

(9) the idealistic, utopian and romanticised vision that some have about
    that list;

(10) the *sectarian* politics and style of discourse
;
(10) the lack of *SERIOUS AND HONEST* dialogue.
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> Ultimately, there are
> class questions involved in all this, but I know that nobody who's a
> professor could possibly entertain the possibility that they are not part
> of the working-class.
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Most academics are not "professors." They are wage earners. Those who say
otherwise help prevent working class unity and are an obstacle to be
overcome in the course of the development of *class consciousness*. It is
true, though, that some "professors" are elitist. *They* were not the
ones who left the marxism list (or joined it to begin with).

Louis reproduced some posts from the marxism list. They are *far* from
being representative samples.

IMO, most posts are simply *NOT SERIOUS*. I take my politics seriously
and I, quite frankly, have little patience for those who view it all as a
game.

When those on the marxism list confront the above problems, it can grow
and bloom. In the meantime, it is moribund.

Jerry