[PEN-L:5147] Re: Justice

[ecwfm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (bill mitchell)]

Curtis offered much more than is here:

[deletions]
>  The book's fallacy lies in thinking that virtuous people will
>grow up to become a virtuous society.  On the contrary, as
>Reinhold Niebuhr taught us, there is a "basic difference between
>the morality of individuals and the morality of collectives."
>Virtuous people grow up to hold news conferences putting
>corporate concerns ahead of the common good.
>
[deletions]
>
>  I guess that the point of the above article as it relates to
>Bill Mitchell's post (see below) is that we as individuals have
>to do something MORE than simply practice personal virtues, or
>society isn't going to get any better.  This something more
>surely involves actively promoting a good social democratic
>POLITICAL agenda as another PEN-ler pointed out in response to
>Mitchell's post.

And of-course i agree. and did i not say that in the stream of
mails on this topic.

but movements become corrupted unless the individuals have compatible
values.

it also raises the general issue off whether being a marxist extends into
a personal code of conduct as well as the collective code of conduct and
organisation. personally i feel it does, but i know others definately don't
agree with me.

we had this for example in the private/public school debate. progressives on
this list said "sure i believe in the public sector, but not for my kids". i
was and am implacably opposed to that view. how can your own children be
more important than all the rest of the kids? at what point does socialism
cease to work when the so-called progressives are willing to privatise gains
at the
obvious expense of the collective?

there are many more examples and issues here. we can talk about it if people
like. tonight (late friday afternoon) i still have a mountain of things to do.

kind regards
bill
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