Re: [OPE-L] Haymarket and Holloway

[Paul Zarembka <zarembka@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Thu, 19 May 2005 Gerald_A_Levy@xxxxxxx wrote:

> > But one could also say that anarchism was responsible for the Haymarket
> > bomb  and that it greatly harmed the labor movement.  If so, objectively,
> > such action supported capital and the state.
>
> Paul Z,
>
> What do you know that other labor historians don't know?  I have
> never seen  nor heard of  any credible evidence that anarchists were
> responsible for making or throwing the bomb at Haymarket Square in
> Chicago in 1886.

To the best of my knowledge, we simply don't know who threw the Haymarket
bomb.  Thus, my own use of the conditional.  An anarchist MAY have been
the person and we do know that Lingg was into making bombs.  (The
scandalous convictions center, of course, upon those whom we know did NOT
throw the bomb.)

I repeat: if an anarchist threw the bomb, it was a very deleterious act
for the labor movement -- with the same consequence as an explicit agent
provocateur doing the act.  It is perhaps an exact illustration that it is
not simple to know 'which side a person is on', and, in fact, the
objective consequences of the act is independent of the subjective
feelings/intentions of WHO (your favored anarchist, or the police agent)
actually did it.

We do know who later shot Frick and McKinley.  The consequences are also
rather well known.

> > > I think, though, that given John's latest clarifications there should
> > > be _no_ question about whether he is supportive of the revolutionary
> > > process in Venezuela or what side of the barricades he is on.
> >
> > Aren't we getting a bit too personal about John as an individual.  Aren't
> > we trying to discuss a larger issue?
>
> We should be trying to get at understanding a larger issue, but the thread
> that you started on April 16 was explicitly directed towards John:
>
> "Query to John Holloway: What's your position on the Bolivarian
> Revolution?"
>
> That query has now been answered.

You are unconditionally satisfied by John's email earlier today, even
before anyone has time to respond.

Explicitly responding to you, 'so be it, your support is recognized'.

Paul