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Paul, I was wondering whether we agree on the question that got me started on this exercise, viz. what are the givens in Marx's so called transformation procedure. I follow Mattick Jr, Carchedi and Moseley in taking the initial money price of capital as given (this is why I have been arguing for the strongest possible interpretation of why money as a measure of value is also the absolutely necessary form of the appearance of value which otherwise is only a pretence). It seems absurd to me to hold the technical conditions of production constant EVEN as relative prices are reconfigured upon a change in the distribution of income. Fred argues that there is a debate about what to take as givens--the initial money sum of capital or the technical conditions of production. (Moreover, Sraffa's attack on causality which has been pointed out by Alan F seems more radical to me than Bohr's or Heisenberg's). But this in no way resolves the problems in Marx's theory of value. 1. What is its relation to the classical labor theory of value? How does Marx correct it? Here is my answer: Marx argues that since with the generalisation of private commodity production by means of wage labor, social labor is no longer proportioned to its respective tasks by 'natural' patriarchy, tradition or ex ante planning, social labor must then be sufficiently abstract and homogeneous to be capable of being dynamically apportioned through movements in the exchange values of commodities. Abstract labor is thus only a practical truth in bourgeois society (and then only approximately or tendentially so): the labor that produces value through the expression of which in the universal equivalent the apportioning of social labor is effected is necessarily abstract, homogeneous labor. This then reveals the latent many-sidedenss of human capacities. Aristotle could thus not get behind the value form because its generalisation is both cause and consequence of labor having become abstract and homogeneous, i.e., mobile and free wage labor. The classical economists were incorrect to reduce value to labor as such, not to the labor of free wage labor, the historical specifity of which Marx understood on the basis of his intensive study of Richard Jones who has been neglected now for more than 150 years (only Wesley Clark Mitchell and Erich Roll give him any real attention in the dozen histories of economic thought I have). In other words, classical economics mistook a determinate abstraction for a general one, as Patrick Murray has put it. 2. Does Marx's value theory suffer from the same problems as the classical theory? 3. Is it superior to the subjective theory of value? After all we have Schumpeter's 1908 case for basing economics on the subjective theory of value (which however he implicitly abandoned as his entrepreneurial metaphysics forced himself to discard the sovereignty of the consumer): It is more correct because the various cost theories have at best only approximate validity and they never reduce the phenomenon of costs to its actual source of explanation. It issimpleer because the value theory of labor requires a number of auxiliary construction, which can simply now be omitted. It is more general because in the first instance all cost theories refer only to commodities produced under free competition and partly only to 'freely augmentable' commodities; in addition they are only valid for periods of a certain duration, while the subjective theory of value econpmasses both monopolized and non monopolized commodities, as well as long and short periods of time. Finally it renders the results of economics more relevant, because for most problems the state of satisfaction of wants and is alteration is much more important than the quantity of labour and the aleration theroe contained in the commodities, the consumption of which creates the above mentioned satisfaction." So even if Marxian value theory does not founder on a transformation problem, there are plenty of other remaining questions. Yours, Rakesh
- [OPE-L:3531] Non-constant returns to scale and the LTV, Gil Skillman Thu 22 Jun 2000, 21:40 GMT
- [OPE-L:3529] Re: Re: Re: Gil's criticisms, Gil Skillman Thu 22 Jun 2000, 18:54 GMT
- [OPE-L:3528] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Marxism and 19th century materialism, Rakesh Bhandari Thu 22 Jun 2000, 16:09 GMT
- [OPE-L:3535] Re:returns to scale, Paul Cockshott Fri 23 Jun 2000, 10:45 GMT
- [OPE-L:3526] Re: Re: Re: Marxism and 19th century materialism, Rakesh Bhandari Wed 21 Jun 2000, 16:25 GMT
- [OPE-L:3525] Re: Re: Re: Marxism and 19th century materialism, Rakesh Bhandari Wed 21 Jun 2000, 15:30 GMT
- [OPE-L:3527] Re: Re: Re: Re: Marxism and 19th century materialism, Paul Cockshott Thu 22 Jun 2000, 11:39 GMT
- [OPE-L:3520] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Marxism and 19th century materialism, Steve Keen Mon 19 Jun 2000, 19:31 GMT
- [OPE-L:3519] Aristotle, Rakesh Bhandari Mon 19 Jun 2000, 17:36 GMT