Re: [Marxism] Clinton: "behind the scenes, we were doing a lot"

[John <johnedmundson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Sun, 2009-08-09 at 20:02 -0700, Eli Stephens wrote:
> 
>                                                     Just to show how
>  eager you are to condemn and demonize Iran, Louis, thereby helping the
>  U.S. government in its campaign, here's what you wrote: "Iran has now
>  admitted to torturing the jailed protesters."
> 
> I suggest you read the news, from which we learn that Iran has admitted
>  *beating* prisoners, which is certainly not a good thing, but not
>  *torturing* them. Next you'll be repeating the claim that Ahmadinejad
>  has threatened to wipe Israel off the map.

So how do you distinguish between beating and torture Eli. If I had the
crap beaten out of me by the state I'd certainly find that distinction a
bit of an academic one. What is it; if they beat me to get me to reveal
information it's torture but if they "only" beat me to intimidate me
into not protesting it isn't?

You're running an "angels on the head of a pin" argument there. The
truth is that the current Iranian regime is not a progressive one. It
jails unionists for having the audacity to go on strike, and then
"beats" them. But it should be defended if it's attacked by Imperialism.
But that doesn't mean prettifying it. On the other hand the opposition
is a mixed bag, some of whom are getting US support and others of whom
would be the US's worst nightmare if they came to power.

Opposing US intervention in Iran and supporting the Iranian workers in
their struggle against the theocrats are not mutually exclusive.

So I was interested to read the stuff you quoted from Clinton, but I
can't accept your argument that there's a meaningful distinction between
the Iranian government beating arrested protesters and their torturing
them.
Cheers,
John


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