Re: [Marxism] China's growth accelerates in Q2

["S. Artesian" <sartesian@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Couple of points of fact:  1.FIE's include various types of organizations, 
including forms of partnership, and in ALMOST ALL of them, the Chinese 
partner is the minority partner, if there is a Chinese partner at all, as 
wholly owned subsidiaries are the preferred form for investment.  Where 
actual manufacturing has taken place, that is dominated by the 
foreign-controlled interests.

2. The regulation of foreign investment, foreign trade,etc. by the Chinese 
govt. in no way, shape or form resembles the "strict controls" Marvin 
identified, and reinforced in alluding to the Bolsheviks.

3. In actuality, the Chinese state does NOT try to mediate between the 
workers and the FIEs like a "social-democratic" state-- it has almost none 
of the apparatus in place to conduct such mediation, and not least of all, 
because the trade unions do not play the same role in China that they have 
historically played in the advanced capitalist countries.

The shifting economic terrain has pretty much put the trades unions at sea, 
not knowing which way to turn.  At this year's Left Forum Ellen David 
Friedman , working in Quangzhou with student and labor groups for the last 2 
years, spoke of how unaccustomed, and almost incapable, the unions are of 
assuming a role independent of the government, much less adversarial to the 
capitalists.

Our disagreement is about whether or not China has established a strong 
domestic capitalism, independent of the US, Japanese, Taiwanese, South 
Korean FDI; about whether China represents a serious "rival"  or 
"alternative"  to the current international configuration and/or hierarchy; 
whether China can maintain growth through domestic stimulus.

To describe China as a "vassal state"  of Western imperialism prior to 
1949-- to put a term like that out there without any specificity really 
obscures more than it clarifies.  Western penetration of China beyond the 
ports, beyond the concessions was minimal.  The economic development of 
China does not represent, Mao to the contrary not withstanding, an incipient 
vibrant capitalism that was "cut down" by imperialist penetration.  It's way 
more complicated than that-- a complication rooted in land-tenure patterns 
that, to this day, the post revolutionary government has not overcome-- but 
with the help of its foreign partners, and its own army to suppress the 
revolts,  it just might.. now.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marv Gandall" <marvgandall@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <sartesian@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Saturday, July 18, 2009 10:35 AM
Subject: Re: [Marxism] China's growth accelerates in Q2



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