Re: [Marxism] Israel's Growing Internal Divide

[Jim Farmelant <farmelantj@xxxxxxxx>]

On Sun, 24 May 2009 16:02:52 +1000 Gary MacLennan
<gary.maclennan1@xxxxxxxxx> writes:


> 
> Similarly with Israel.  It is impossible to unite Arabs and Zionists 
> in
> Israel, because Israel was created on the premise of the ethnic 
> cleansing of
> Arabs and the appropriation of their land and assets.  So the Arab 
> is the
> essential enemy to the Zionist. It matters not then that a large 
> percentage
> of Israeli Arabs want peace with the Israelis.  The Israelis cannot 
> grant
> full rights to their Arab citizens and maintain the "Jewish State". 
> So the
> seeds of the their own down fall are there.  Only another massive 
> round of
> ethnic cleansing on the sale of 1948 can relieve the growing 
> pressure.  And
> such a "transfer" as the Israelis like to call it is just not 
> politically
> acceptable at present.
> 

Rabbi Meir Kahane was IMO one of the
more candid and intellectually honest
Zionists, which is why the Zionist
establishment could not abide him
while he was still alive, even though
since his death, many of his ideas
have become part of mainstream
political discourse in Israel.

Down below I have posted
an excerpt of an interview
that was done with him by
a couple of  French journalists.
In the excerpt that I have posted,
Kahane addresses the issue of
the compatibility of Zionism with
Western democracy.  His answer
is that the two are not compatible.

--------------------------------------
 Israel?s Ayatollahs:
Meir Kahane and the Far Right in Israel.

By Raphael Mergui and Philippe Simonnot
Scanned and edited by Avraham Eliav

(Atlantic Highlands, NJ: Saqi Books, 1987)
First published in French in 1985 as: Meir Kahane: le rabbin qui fait
peur aux juifs.
http://tinyurl.com/qz4rst

Q: How do you see Western democracy?

A: First I?m going to give you a bit of background, to help you
understand. 
Among all the controversy surrounding Kahane you?ll not find anybody 
prepared to take up the challenge that I have thrown down. Since people 
are not capable of debating, they attack me by putting labels on me. 
The first thing I want to say is that I couldn?t care less what they call
me, 
and that?s what makes them so mad. The Left has always acted that way 
when they want to attack the Right. The problem is that these people 
don?t know how to debate. Let?s get to the point. First you must 
understand that Zionism and Western democracy are at odds. 
And according to Zionism, this country must be a Jewish state.


Q: What exactly is a Jewish state?

A: A Jewish state means that, at a minimum, there must be a majority 
of Jews; a Jewish sovereignty with the power to make our own laws. 
This is why Jews have left Europe and have come here. If we were 
now to apply to the letter the principles of Western democracy, 
we would have to agree that decisions are to be made by a majority. 
It?s at this point that I ask a question that sends Israelis crazy, both 
on the Left and on the Right. The question is as follows: if the Arabs 
settle among us and make enough children to become a majority, 
will Israel continue to be a Jewish state? Do we have to accept that 
the Arab majority will decide? Obviously, nobody in Israel can 
accept this. Because to accept this would amount to being anti-Zionist!


Q: Would you accept a situation in which there was democracy 
only for the Jews and not for the Arabs?

A: I?ll answer that question later. First let me explain why everybody 
is mad at me. It?s because I have confronted people with the following 
contradiction: you can?t have Zionism and democracy at the same time. 
And for those who criticize me, it?s very difficult to get out of this
contradiction.

Now let me answer your question. First of all, Western democracy has to
be ruled out. 
For me that?s cut and dried: there?s no question of setting up democracy
in Israel, 
because democracy means equal rights for all, irrespective of racial or
religious 
origins. Therefore democracy and Zionism cannot go together. And Israel?s

Declaration of Independence, which proclaimed this state to be a Jewish
state, 
is a totally schizophrenic document. You just can?t, on the one hand,
want a 
Jewish state and at the same time give non-Jews the right to become a
majority. 
When Abba Eban makes beautiful speeches in twelve languages and starts 
talking about Jewish democracy-what on earth does that mean, Jewish
democracy?

Let?s get back to your question and let me talk about democracy as far 
as Jews are concerned. Do I accept democracy for Judaism? 
My answer is: Judaism does not accept democracy unless it is 
within a structure that adheres to the law of the Torah. I challenge 
any rabbi to contradict me on this. My hope as a religious Jew, 
which is the hope of every sincere and religious Jew, is to have 
a state governed by the Torah. If one accepts the commandments 
of the Torah, then democracy is conceivable within the framework 
of those commandments. Of course, nobody could vote against these 
commandments. Nobody could question the fact that the government 
has to abide by the Torah. There is no question of letting people vote 
for or against the commandments of the Torah. This can?t be decided 
by a vote. However, if this objective cannot be reached without having 
a civil war in Israel, then I?d give it up. Therefore I hope that we?ll
be 
able to convince a majority of Jews to create a state governed by the 
Torah, and that the minority will accept it. And then, if that means 
voting in elections every four years so as to have a government in 
compliance with the Torah, of course I?d accept it. 
But I can?t say that I?d be pleased with it.
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