Re: [Marxism] Working men vs. Marx Male (shocking words!)

["Fred Feldman" <ffeldman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Michael Smith wrote:
Funny. This list doesn't seem very macho to me. 

My points of reference are road gangs 
and construction crews. Oh and sailors.

KM Cook wrote:
Pat, Cherie, Steffie,
This sort of verbal sexual bullying doesn't seem to happen 
among working class men--at least when the group is trying to 
make political progress that includes women--I don't know what 
they say when they are off w/o sisters. My regional Labor Council 
with UBC, Boiler-Makers, IBEW, AFT, AFSCME is so far 
beyond the anti-female shocking words that the Council has
real solidarity of issues of common concern. [that contrary to the 
stereotypes of blue collar men].

--Kathleen, AFT

Fred comments: 
I was glad to see Kathleen's comments. I was glad to see Kathleen's comments
and appreciate the contrast with Michael's who presented a rather
stereotyped version of what Macho (and, more broadly, sexism) are all about
and who among men is affected by them.

Michael says, "Funny. This list doesn't seem very macho to me." Naturally
enough, since you visualize "macho" as something that cannot refer to Jewish
intellectuals, professional radicals, and so on, but only to certain sectors
of the working class and the military. (Not, apparently, the Marines or the
infantry or the air force.)

Speaking as a Jewish intellectual and a worker (both by temperament, in
fact) I can guarantee you that I have some macho characteristics. I love the
best John Wayne and Clint Eastwood movies, and westerns and hard-boiled
detective stuff more broadly. The Wild Bunch, a classic of the genre, very
perceptive about macho attitudes in my opinion, in particular. And Citizen
Kane, a good description of, among other things, macho posturing in a
non-working class highly educated intellectual-minded rich male.

I personally think women should have more say than men over what constitutes
"macho" or "sexism." Especially since our goal should be to include them,
not exclude them from the struggle. This is a core affirmative action
question.

I don't think sexism-"macho" is the only thing that keeps women off the
list. There are broader social pressures. But I also recall the comrade who
fought fiercely for the right to call women he didn't like  "bitch". Hilary
Clinton, of course -- I'm sure you guessed if you didn't know beforehand.
Louis correctly unsubbed him briefly and he has since corrected his ways, if
not his thoughts. (I don't advocate pre-frontal lobotomies for males,
including myself. The key is the need to try to advance the perspective of a
movement against capitalism that can embrace women and Blacks as central
participants, and gradually adapting our methods of discussion to that goal
as the possibility grows.)

This list is not just about self-expression, much as I love self-expression.
It is an attempt to sort out theoretical and other issues concerning the
struggle for progress. From that standpoint, what women can't hack is an
obstacle to the discussion. Period.

By the way, in the realm of art and literature, I favor no exclusion at all.
Anything goes including quite reactionary attitudes. My favorite writers
include Fyodor Dostoevsky; Louis Ferdinand-Celine (an outright pro-fascist
and pro-Nazi occupation of France) including the novels he wrote about his
experiences as a Nazi collaborator (Castle to Castle, Nord), Dashiell
Hammett, and William Faulkner. I wouldn't change or restrict a word they
said (not even, in the case of Celine, the most anti-Semitic). We know the
world better because of what they wrote.

But this list IS political. And we should all stand for a list that will
make the participation on the list more possible for women and Blacks,
despite the fact that our culture is not the most important obstacle to
their participation.

I very much appreciate Pat Costello's reprinting of the comments of the late
great Steffie Brooks, who died of cancer early this year (a casualty of the
tobacco industry). She got a well-earned tribute at a memorial meeting
organized by political cothinkers (broadly defined) and family members in
March.
Fred Feldman 



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